Game Over? 5th gear pics.

[pdhaudio83]

Well, a special thank you to Ken for coming over today and taking a look at the transmission with me.

Looks like I might have to think twice about staying in the game of modding a Protege. With a whopping 1,700 miles on it, the trans has failed AGAIN.

Not sure if I want to continue.

BOTH MAIN AND SECONDARY gears are entirely the same.

[mgerth]

Holy cow. You going to pop the case open?

When did 5th go out, during a pull?

[SpooledupRacing]

I still dont see how you could be eating trannys like that.. IMO that has to have been a bad build or something..

there is no EXCUSE for a tranny going that quick..

[pdhaudio83]

Holy cow. You going to pop the case open?

When did 5th go out, during a pull?

Gonna half too, I reckon.

Not during a pull no... highway driving at 110-120mph... got on it, coasted, got on it, coasted, got on it... POP

[Judman13]

Holy Poo man thats crazy!!!! Just goes to show the power of your car!!!

[mgerth]

Any vibration or noise from 5th gear recently? Do the main and secondary gears look to be on the same plane? I wonder if slight misalignment caused them to bind and shear.

Just thinking out loud.

[pdhaudio83]

Any vibration or noise from 5th gear recently? Do the main and secondary gears look to be on the same plane? I wonder if slight misalignment caused them to bind and shear.

Just thinking out loud.

No vibration or noise, no... they do look to be on the same plane...

here's another shot

[Focus]

Were tolerances and backlash all measured during build up ?

[BRIAN MP5T]

Dude, I believe that you have to Pay to Play.

I think that a new Trans with a drop in PSI will make your car last a bit longer..

[pdhaudio83]

Were tolerances and backlash all measured during build up ?

I was not provided any information on this. Ken insisted the guy had done many Protege transmissions before, but I don't know directly if that's true at all.

[mgerth]

The issue is that when you installed it you had problems and I think those problems manifested into destroyed 5th gears. Hopefully nothing else is damaged. That's a lot of debris.

[SpooledupRacing]

yeah I still think from the begining u had problems which IMO means the trans was faulty from the begining and Ken should stand up and get this taken care of for you.. He KNOWS of the problems the trans had at first and this is all from that we ALL know it..

IMO this is where we will see how much Customer service Ken has.. that trans should be fixed by HIM or a KNOW HOW GUY FROM HIS SHOP at no charge..

[pdhaudio83]

yeah I still think from the begining u had problems which IMO means the trans was faulty from the begining and Ken should stand up and get this taken care of for you.. He KNOWS of the problems the trans had at first and this is all from that we ALL know it..

IMO this is where we will see how much Customer service Ken has.. that trans should be fixed by HIM or a KNOW HOW GUY FROM HIS SHOP at no charge..

thats another thing. the guy that Ken had put it together "got out of the business".

[mgerth]

I'm sure Ken will make it right.

[pdhaudio83]

I'm sure Ken will make it right.

I'm honestly not even sure. I mean it appears its something with the car, but then I haven't heard a single person having this issue, its odd it only lasted 1700 miles, I got no specs or tolerances or anything, after I installed it, it was locked up, etc.

I think Ken (probably with my help) has the mindset that this isn't his problem.

I like Ken, but I don't think his builder did me right.

[neox.286]

yea sounds like the guy who built the tranny screwed you =(

makes me wonder about my transmission build now >.<

[mgerth]

The way I see it is you paid PG for a tranny, it wasn't correct. Its their problem no matter who they had build it.

Example: We built a motor w/ Darton sleeves for a customer. First time we cranked it/added water, cylinder 4 filled with water due to a defective sleeve that had pin holes. Darton sent us another sleeve and the machine shop worked overtime to get the new sleeve pressed in. We still had to eat the ~30hours we spent tearing the car down, driving to and from the machine shop, re-assembling motor, new gaskets, reinstallation. Sometimes you have to eat the loss even when its not YOUR fault.

[ForceFed]

GLad I got a Brand new MSP tranny going in my Little bitch....Makes me feel much better about it....Even If I am pulling the LSD out to have it welded.
I should have to set anything if I dont change anything.

Good luck on whatever you decide Pat..that gear is Hit.

[SpooledupRacing]

The way I see it is you paid PG for a tranny, it wasn't correct. Its their problem no matter who they had build it..


100% if Ken does NOT take care of this I will lose any respect I had for him.. we have all heard of and been on the receiving end of his CRAPPY customer service and if he walks on this and says it is up to u to pay to have it fixed I would deff take matters in yoru hands and make sure he regrets that decision..

I'm SERIOUS... not to be rude Pat but grab your balls and show him whos boss, he did u wrong and if he wont take care of it then u NEED TO!

this is NOT your fault or your cars problem this was an example of A SHOTTY build..

[neox.286]

I know your not planning to run high horsepower FF, but I would still be worried about 3rd and 4th....hell, even with half the mods you are going to be running those still fail

mgerth: agreed there....for example, I'm definately not a pro shop at all...but Ive worked on a lot of my friend's msps...recently I was installing a smic for one of them and when I put the fans in I was rushing cause it was SUPER hot outside, and I accidentally tweaked the fan against the radiator and poked a tiny hole in it......well, rather than say 'sorry dude, your fucked!' I immediately went over to my car and pulled out my radiator to put into his, then during that week took his radiator to get repaired and threw that one in my car

ken should understand, though he will probably be reluctant at first of course

[neox.286]

100% if Ken does NOT take care of this I will lose any respect I had for him.. we have all heard of and been on the receiving end of his CRAPPY customer service and if he walks on this and says it is up to u to pay to have it fixed I would deff take matters in yoru hands and make sure he regrets that decision..

I'm SERIOUS... not to be rude Pat but grab your balls and show him whos boss, he did u wrong and if he wont take care of it then u NEED TO!

this is NOT your fault or your cars problem this was an example of A SHOTTY build..

is that sarcasm? lol, I cant tell.....personally, Ive had nothing but excellent customer service from them, I literally have nothing to complain about with protege garage

[SpooledupRacing]

is that sarcasm? lol, I cant tell.....personally, Ive had nothing but excellent customer service from them, I literally have nothing to complain about with protege garage



nope so you enjoy his customer services look at the COUNTLESS others who can never get ahold of the guy, shipping takes for ever.

I tried for 2 days via email and phone to get ahold of him, I left a message and NEVER did I get any response AT ALL..
I see others who complain about him and how slow he is, or how u can never get ahold of him etc..

THAT IS NO WAY TO RUN A BUSINESS..

and if he don't step up to the plate here and fix this problem that will further go to show his lackluster customer service.

and I am not talking about the guy personally I have never met him however I am only go on what I have read, what I have heard, my experience, and his BUSINESS

[pdhaudio83]

This whole situation blows, and it sucks that I have to be on the offensive all the damn time. I'm to the point I want to give in and just exit the Protege.

[SpooledupRacing]

Pat, I understand exactly what u are going through.. I had similiar problems with another company years ago with my Starion and a problem with a cylinder head

you have two choices u can bend over and get slamed again
OR
you can put your foot down and ask to be treated like u should be as a CUSTOMER who has a genuwine problem with a product u paid for and request either your money back (and take the trans elsewhere) or to have the trans redone again AT NO CHARGE..

In either situation weather u keep the protege or not you have the right to get your money back or a new trans..
then u can decided wether to sell the car or not.

IMO I say stick with it.. its a very clean car, you have alot into it but u just need to get a trans in there that will work..

[Red5_02]

Turn down the boost man...

[SpooledupRacing]

he should'nt have to that tranny was built to hold the power the problem was the build was SHOTTY..


besides the engine was built to hold the power too..

[JC-MP5]

That sux :(

[ForceFed]

Spooled..you really need to watch your tongue....You are kind of crossing the line as a Vendor for what you are saying.

Ken is a Good Vendor who has been around a long time...Probably longer than any other one....If you have had issues..that is fine...But if you broke it down over total sales..I am sure the percentage who have had issues is small and in single digits .
He has gone through many changes as a Vendopr and still continues to bring Great pricing and Still produces new items or works with others in getting it done.

Thats hard to come by on a dead Chassis..and you should know this.

Just be careful....Bad mouthing other vendors doesn't look good as to the type of guy you are as a vendor yourself.

Just some words of Wisdom...Nothing else.

[iLisa]

This whole situation blows, and it sucks that I have to be on the offensive all the damn time. I'm to the point I want to give in and just exit the Protege.
dibs on the.... j/k!!!
I DO NOT want to see you part with the protege.... :headshake:

[Red5_02]

he should'nt have to that tranny was built to hold the power the problem was the build was SHOTTY..


besides the engine was built to hold the power too..

See you'd think that but our trannys are awful. If you're running 15 lbs of boost you can destroy one. He just needs to be a little more conservative

[pdhaudio83]

At this point, I think I'll request some info about the build- along the lines that Focus mentioned. For over a grand I'd expect that tolerances and backlash had been checked. I also have never gotten (after about 7 times of asking) receipts to show work performed (such as cryo treatment).

I'm feeling sad that this has to happen and that Ken is in the middle, but he's the one that had good things to say, so I trusted him.

[pdhaudio83]

See you'd think that but our trannys are awful. If you're running 15 lbs of boost you can destroy one. He just needs to be a little more conservative

The trans is built. I've NEVER seen one kill fifth gear based on POWER. If someone can link me to one, I'll be shocked.

15psi kill one? This is my third dead trans... all for seperate issues that have been corrected and have not failed again (shift fork, 3&4th gears) I'm not building these to hold only 15psi... I've seen a G15M-R take 700whp. It only lasted 3 drag runs, but I don't have 700whp and I'm sure as hell not making drag runs day and night.

The trans shouldn't have failed. Third and fourth are known to go, not fifth.

I'm leaning to incorrect tolerances causing the gears to bind, and I plan to bring it to a REAL SPECIALIST once the trans is OUT to get these checked. I see no markings on the gear to indicate any shims/adjustments/etc

[iLisa]

You definitely should get receipts for work done on your tranny that didnt end up working.

[MazdaTom]

Did the transmission builder know that your car is putting out the kind of power it does? If so, did you pay for him to "beef up" the transmission accordingly or is this just a typical rebuilt Protege transmission? If he knew and beefed up the transmission, then you might have a leg to stand on. But if he finds out how fast you were going when it went, I could see him easily say: "you were abusing the transmission and using it outside the scope of what it was designed to do" and not warranty it. If he didn't know about the power, then I'd say you're screwed if he finds out. 'Cuz let's face it, Protege transmissions were designed as econobox transmissions putting out half the power yours does. The 4 cylinder SCCA club racers that I know of rarely go that fast while racing and most never even use 5th gear.

[FunkRider]

These mazda boxes are not some magical voodoo hunks of aluminum and metal. Anyone who has a clue about manual transmissions should be able to put one togeather properly. People can also make mistakes too.

[Focus]

These mazda boxes are not some magical voodoo hunks of aluminum and metal. Anyone who has a clue about manual transmissions should be able to put one togeather properly. People can also make mistakes too.

Any transmission should be reassembled by professionals. There are special tools that need to be used to measure tolerances and backlash, especially for a transmission that is built.

[SpooledupRacing]

Spooled..you really need to watch your tongue....You are kind of crossing the line as a Vendor for what you are saying.

Ken is a Good Vendor who has been around a long time...Probably longer than any other one....If you have had issues..that is fine...But if you broke it down over total sales..I am sure the percentage who have had issues is small and in single digits .
He has gone through many changes as a Vendopr and still continues to bring Great pricing and Still produces new items or works with others in getting it done.

Thats hard to come by on a dead Chassis..and you should know this.

Just be careful....Bad mouthing other vendors doesn't look good as to the type of guy you are as a vendor yourself.

Just some words of Wisdom...Nothing else.



Like I said I am talking about the customer service end of it not Ken directly and not his products...

We will see in the end what happens and go from there.. I will be the last to bad mouth ANYONE until I feel they deserve it.. and since I have been here any customer service I have noticed is well, below par IMO

[TheMAN]

Spooled..you really need to watch your tongue....You are kind of crossing the line as a Vendor for what you are saying.

Ken is a Good Vendor who has been around a long time...Probably longer than any other one....If you have had issues..that is fine...But if you broke it down over total sales..I am sure the percentage who have had issues is small and in single digits .
He has gone through many changes as a Vendopr and still continues to bring Great pricing and Still produces new items or works with others in getting it done.

Thats hard to come by on a dead Chassis..and you should know this.

Just be careful....Bad mouthing other vendors doesn't look good as to the type of guy you are as a vendor yourself.

Just some words of Wisdom...Nothing else.
when it is just a 2-3 man operation and hundreds of customers to deal with per week, you can only do so much

I know all about the undermanned thing and it is NOT fun... you are constantly slammed with customers screaming at when they will get their shit while you are busy trying to process new orders then having to prioritize the ones who are paying extra for faster service plus having to deal with actual local customers... most people will just kill themselves if they were working in my line of job for a week

give that guy a break, he tries to deliver but he can't always do things immediately

[SpooledupRacing]

All of this b.s aside.. Pat I feel really bad for ya, its a bad thing that something like this happened and u are contemplating selling the pro.

If you need any help.. Let me know

[pdhaudio83]

when it is just a 2-3 man operation and hundreds of customers to deal with per week, you can only do so much

I know all about the undermanned thing and it is NOT fun... you are constantly slammed with customers screaming at when they will get their shit while you are busy trying to process new orders then having to prioritize the ones who are paying extra for faster service plus having to deal with actual local customers... most people will just kill themselves if they were working in my line of job for a week

give that guy a break, he tries to deliver but he can't always do things immediately

Not sure if you're referring to Ken, I did give plenty of time...

I dropped the trans off in December with Ken saying a week or two and ended up picking it up in February... did I mind it too longer than expected? Not at all, I told him to take his time and get it right.

In terms of getting those receipts I've been told no less than 6 times that he'd get them for me. I gave up asking in April. Still nothing.

[SpooledupRacing]

Not sure if you're referring to Ken, I did give plenty of time...

I dropped the trans off in December with Ken saying a week or two and ended up picking it up in February... did I mind it too longer than expected? Not at all, I told him to take his time and get it right.

In terms of getting those receipts I've been told no less than 6 times that he'd get them for me. I gave up asking in April. Still nothing.



There u go guys from the FORUM OWNER... This sux Pat.. Let me know if u need any help.. I got some connections in town of guys who can build that trans up right if u plan to stick with it.

[pdhaudio83]

There u go guys from the FORUM OWNER... This sux Pat.. Let me know if u need any help.. I got some connections in town of guys who can build that trans up right if u plan to stick with it.

I'd appreciate that. I'd probably take you up on that... are they PROS? ;)

I'd need papers showing tolerances and backlash/shims if they'd need to adjust... not to be picky but I'm not fucking it up again

[SpooledupRacing]

No this is a BUSINESS that does ONLY transmissions..

[MazdaTom]

There u go guys from the FORUM OWNER....

You still have to keep in mind that Ken was not building this transmission, some other guy was. So while Pat may have been asking Ken for the receipts, Ken never had them and the other guy may not have ever given them to Ken (if they even existed at all).

[ForceFed]

And still..Vendor Bashing by vendors is not Good Spooled.
If you are basing Your Opinion of PG from only the accounts hee..then you have a skewed view of the whole picture.
I dont even think he posts over here...Most of his business dealings are done through the other forum as it still has the Volume of traffic that this one does not.

[pdhaudio83]

You still have to keep in mind that Ken was not building this transmission, some other guy was. So while Pat may have been asking Ken for the receipts, Ken never had them and the other guy may not have ever given them to Ken (if they even existed at all).

I'm giving up. Please stop backing up someone when you don't know the circumstances. Why would one say "I'll get you the receipts and pictures" over SIX times then fail in the end to do so?

Why would Ken say it 6+ times if they never existed, that I don't understand either.

Look, in the end I don't know who's fault it was, what work was REALLY done, all I know is that the guy that assembled mine no longer does... hmm. All I know is the word COINCIDENCE. Rebuilt transmission, driving under NON-RACE circumstances... 1,700 miles after installation, AFTER INITIAL DEFECT, and now POP. Gone.

LESSON LEARNED, FIND A PRO YOU KNOW.

[neox.286]

sorry dave, gotta agree here
no need to be bashing ken on this to this level man, if you dont like their business practices then thats your right....in this situation, we all agree that ken should take some responsibility in getting the tranny fixed, however that does not say anything about his customer service in the past especially since he was not the one assembling the tranny himself

edit: just saw pdhaudio's post... I'll stop here [/threadjack]

[pdhaudio83]

INITIAL DEFECT:

YouTube - Trans Issues

and to think this is my fault the trans went out after seeing that?

[neox.286]

^^^^

what



the



fuck?

[pdhaudio83]

^^^^

what



the



fuck?

That's the BRAND NEW REBUILT trans. fail.

[neox.286]

break in the diff? I guess that makes sense....but then again, only because I honestly am not savvy on transmissions....but at the same time, sounds like a load of b.s. to me...

and not sure if it was your exhaust, but it sounded like there was a lot of noise coming from the engine bay at first...sounds like a rod knock almost....is that the transmission or part of your exhaust?

[pdhaudio83]

break in the diff? I guess that makes sense....but then again, only because I honestly am not savvy on transmissions....but at the same time, sounds like a load of b.s. to me...

and not sure if it was your exhaust, but it sounded like there was a lot of noise coming from the engine bay at first...sounds like a rod knock almost....is that the transmission or part of your exhaust?

that was 100% a joke ;) about the diff

could have been the exhaust hitting on the crossmember

[neox.286]

thats what I figured

bleh, sounds like you should get ken to give you the guy's information and demand a refund personally...that is, if ken doesn't help you out in getting the tranny repaired

[ForceFed]

Ok..This is likely gonna Piss off a few people..but here is my take anyway...

You guys know how I am..I call it like I see it..no matter whose feelings get hurt.

Pat...Fitrst off....You cannot completely lay the blame on anyone for this failure.
You knew there was an Issue from the get go...Yet you fought with the tranny (literally) until you though it Broke in....Now seriously....Tell me the last time you have ever heard of a tranny in which you cannot even move the gear lever?

You cant..because it doesn't happen.

Now , yes..if the build was done incorrectly...There is some liability there for someone other than yourself...But you continued to drive on this tranny when from the get go it had Issues...Known issues...Issues you came to the forum for help with.

I would have yanked that thing right back out and shipped it down the road...especially if i spent that much money building it up.

Now...I don't know what has transpired since the Transmission blew this time between you and Ken....But I hope you two can come to an ammicable agreement on what is to be done to remedy the situation.

I do feel for you...But In all honesty..There is a Reason I know I send my stuff to....If I send it out to anyone at all.

My real life motto...If you want something done right....Do it yourself.


People are lazy these days and it drives me insane....I cant tell you the amount of people I would like to cause bodily harm to on a daily basis because of the ignorance they display.

Half of the country is pure plain and simple, flat out morons....and I wish Darwin would get off his ass and get to work.'


Wow...WTH were we talking about?

[SpooledupRacing]

I remember when that was taken and when we talked... I told ya something was not right ...

I think that when that problem happened and Ken was notified he should have told u to NOT try and get the car to move and to pull it back out and have it looked at..

to many bad things happened here.

[neox.286]

I totally agree with you guys 100% there

however his gf (or wife?) was on the phone with someone who I am guessing is the transmission guy....and from the sounds of it, he was blatantly telling pat that it was nothing to worry about and making up bullshit excuses, thusly I would rest more blame on the tranny guy there

[pdhaudio83]

Ok..This is likely gonna Piss off a few people..but here is my take anyway...

You guys know how I am..I call it like I see it..no matter whose feelings get hurt.

Pat...Fitrst off....You cannot completely lay the blame on anyone for this failure.
You knew there was an Issue from the get go...Yet you fought with the tranny (literally) until you though it Broke in....Now seriously....Tell me the last time you have ever heard of a tranny in which you cannot even move the gear lever?

You cant..because it doesn't happen.

Now , yes..if the build was done incorrectly...There is some liability there for someone other than yourself...But you continued to drive on this tranny when from the get go it had Issues...Known issues...Issues you came to the forum for help with.

I would have yanked that thing right back out and shipped it down the road...especially if i spent that much money building it up.

Now...I don't know what has transpired since the Transmission blew this time between you and Ken....But I hope you two can come to an ammicable agreement on what is to be done to remedy the situation.

I do feel for you...But In all honesty..There is a Reason I know I send my stuff to....If I send it out to anyone at all.

My real life motto...If you want something done right....Do it yourself.


People are lazy these days and it drives me insane....I cant tell you the amount of people I would like to cause bodily harm to on a daily basis because of the ignorance they display.

Half of the country is pure plain and simple, flat out morons....and I wish Darwin would get off his ass and get to work.'


Wow...WTH were we talking about?

You'd think the person that did the work and/or sold it to you would know what they're talking about correct? Ken advised me that it would be OK to drive after we drained the fluid and refilled it with new.

And seriously, I don't have the equipment that maybe you do to rebuild an entire transmission in my garage, and how economical is it to go buy that shit and leave it sitting around, used once?

I pay people to do stuff I can't so this shit doesn't happen, but apparently it still does.

Good for you that you do all your own work. For 95% of us, that isn't reasonable. Engines? yeah I'd do it. Not something with hundreds of pieces that need to be within .005" of spec.

[SpooledupRacing]

in the end this is the way I see it..

KEN had him send the trans to the guy to build it
KEN was the one "behind the deal"
KEN owes him some paper work and receipts
KEN knew of the initial problem and did nothing
KEN now has the ball in his hands and WE ALL will see what he decided to do with it..


But through all the bickering there is only one HONEST thing that everyone SHOULD agree on

KEN is a business man, this was one of his guy (or someone he had do the work), This is tranny failure due to the work that has been done..
KEN is liable..

Now that has nothing to do with him or his business that has EVERYTHING to do with a product that prematurly failed and now the pieces need to be picked up and put back together.

[SpooledupRacing]

I totally agree with you guys 100% there

however his gf (or wife?) was on the phone with someone who I am guessing is the transmission guy....and from the sounds of it, he was blatantly telling pat that it was nothing to worry about and making up bullshit excuses, thusly I would rest more blame on the tranny guy there


no just one of our friends.. KEN told him to drive it

[pdhaudio83]

Guys, is it Ken's fault? Highly doubtful, but there were things that definitely could have gone MUCH BETTER... communication for one.

Did his mechanic do a shotty job? Its possible.

Lets not lay it on Ken here, he's just stuck in the middle. Ken doesnt' have the $1200 I paid guys... the mechanic does.

[ForceFed]

I agree..I wasn't blaming anyone with my post.

I just feel you should have pulled the tranny back out..you knew, I knew, we all knew it wasn't right..Your COmmon sense went out the window when the Giddiness of getting your car back on the road overtook you.

It should have came right back out...And you know it even if you dont want to admit it..No matter what anyone may have told you on the phone.

No transmission should be stuck in gear like that.
Period.
End of Story.


Now..I am sre Ken and you have been in ontact abou this....What does he have to say about the builder?
Other than he is "out" of this Business now.
I guess he better get Back in for a short while at least huh.

[neox.286]

pdh:
exactally, that is what I have been trying to say

no offense dave, but you sound EXTREMELY biased against ken

ken has obligations here, yes, but he is not the one to blame....the mechanic is

[SpooledupRacing]

pdh:
exactally, that is what I have been trying to say

no offense dave, but you sound EXTREMELY biased against ken

ken has obligations here, yes, but he is not the one to blame....the mechanic is

Not bias.. IMO Ken stands to take the fall wether it is right or not.. it was his mechanic that did the bad work and in saying that it is kens problem to fix the situation..

if the tables were turned u would understand
lets say

Pat sends me a trans to have me rebuild.. I give it to one of "my guys" now the trans goes back and it is a bad build.. who do u yell at... ME why because I am the one who set the deal up and I am the one who is over head of my guy..

I'm not bias about anyone.. I see to many people getting dicked over day in and day out and this business at times MAKES ME SICK...

ESPECIALLY when the big guys cant clean up their own pile of crap..

Remember you all say "Ken is a busy man he runs a REAL business"

I have even been told

"its easy for u Dave u dont run a REAL Business like ken"

that may be but damnit I still stand behind an issues I have had.

He is in the business he OWNS his business and makes his money and does it on SUCH A LARGER SCALE.. He should be just as liable as any other seller in the world..

I honestly think it is this forum that is bias.. because u like his products and his prices and if u say anything wrong maybe he may not give u a deal?

or maybe u just like him because he is a "protege" guy

either way business is business I hope for both KEN and Pats sake this mess gets cleaned up.. because neither one of them deserve to feel like shit.. and I know Pat does.. and if Ken is as nice of a guy as u guys says he is he should feel like crap.

[pdhaudio83]

I agree..I wasn't blaming anyone with my post.

I just feel you should have pulled the tranny back out..you knew, I knew, we all knew it wasn't right..Your COmmon sense went out the window when the Giddiness of getting your car back on the road overtook you.

It should have came right back out...And you know it even if you dont want to admit it..No matter what anyone may have told you on the phone.

No transmission should be stuck in gear like that.
Period.
End of Story.


Now..I am sre Ken and you have been in ontact abou this....What does he have to say about the builder?
Other than he is "out" of this Business now.
I guess he better get Back in for a short while at least huh.

Meh, I'll deal locally this time.

[neox.286]

dave: but your posts in this thread have been nothing but bashing ken about his customer service and his crappy work, and then putting all of the blame entirely on ken even when its damn obvious that its kens 'guy' that did not know what he was doing...yet you still place ALL of the blame on ken

I agree, ken has obligations here, but look at it from his side too...what is ken going to do about this? the guy obviously got out of the business for reasons like what happened to Pat, meaning that ken ALSO got screwed for trusting the guy....ken doesnt have pat's money, the guy does...ken has obligations to help get the transmission repaired, yes, but he is not the one to take full responsibility because he relied on someone else who screwed him over

ease up off of kens back dude

[ForceFed]

Dave..It depends on the situation if Ken is liable.

If I send you to a uy I reccomend..I am not liable..If I physically take your parts in for a Rebuild and I handle the funds...then maybe...Most likely..I would hold liability.

What was the Situation Pat?
Was ken the "builder" or was he merely a contact for you to go to a tranny guy he knew and sent business to?

And No matter what..Protege Trannies Fail.....Built..Stock....And everywere in between and at all milages.
I agree there was likely something wrong with this tranny...but these things do suck.

[pdhaudio83]

Dave..It depends on the situation if Ken is liable.

If I send you to a uy I reccomend..I am not liable..If I physically take your parts in for a Rebuild and I handle the funds...then maybe...Most likely..I would hold liability.

What was the Situation Pat?
Was ken the "builder" or was he merely a contact for you to go to a tranny guy he knew and sent business to?

And No matter what..Protege Trannies Fail.....Built..Stock....And everywere in between and at all milages.
I agree there was likely something wrong with this tranny...but these things do suck.

Yeap, I'm kind of over it, lesson learned. Kinda frustrating, but whatever.

Ken was to go to man. I never talked to anyone else. Paid ken, delivered trans to Ken, spoke to Ken everytime, picked up trans from ken.

[neox.286]

^^^
in which case, ken has obligations to get you at least the guys contact information and also has obligations to assist in getting your money back

[ForceFed]

Agree.
But all in all...this isn't going to be nice.
Is the rest of the trans OK?

Have you split the case yet?

Might just need to get a New 5th and Install...Have all of the tolerances checked and go at it again.

[pdhaudio83]

Agree.
But all in all...this isn't going to be nice.
Is the rest of the trans OK?

Have you split the case yet?

Might just need to get a New 5th and Install...Have all of the tolerances checked and go at it again.

Not sure, but after 5th was toast, 1-4 moved the car forward and R still moved the car as well.. it was hard to get it into the gear, but that's because teeth are likely all over in the trans.

Trans is still in the car, but will be out sometime when I have the money.

[SpooledupRacing]

Ken was to go to man. I never talked to anyone else. Paid ken, delivered trans to Ken, spoke to Ken everytime, picked up trans from ken.


Guys I am friends with Pat.. I KNOW how this went down..

Ken was the one running the show he is the ONLY guy that Pat did any business with.. Ken is COMPLETELY liable for either his trans to be rebuilt again like he wanted it OR to get/give him his money back

Pat as the customer has done everything expected of him he should be demanding that something be done ASAP so he can move on..

[pdhaudio83]

I've moved on. Lesson learned.

[ForceFed]

Last I checked..you typically dont get a warranty on a Race prepped or Built part from most people...SO I guess it depends on how you look at it Dave.

You are a Hard guy to get along with in any aspect....I mean no matter what dude..yo fail to see any side BUT your own.

Seriously...Step back and look at thing from a different perspective sometimes.

[SpooledupRacing]

Labor you ALWAYS get a warranty on when u have a shop build it..

Thats what he wants is the money he paid KEN which was LABOR MONEY...

Pat supplied the parts, Kens guy did the cryo and rebuild

I am an easy guy to get along with.. this has nothing to do with u or me or anybody this has to do with a business that failed at supplying a ready to run trans for their customer.. any way u look at it the trans was bad when he got it.. it should be covered.

[pdhaudio83]

Labor you ALWAYS get a warranty on when u have a shop build it..

Thats what he wants is the money he paid KEN which was LABOR MONEY...

Pat supplied the parts, Kens guy did the cryo and rebuild

I am an easy guy to get along with.. this has nothing to do with u or me or anybody this has to do with a business that failed at supplying a ready to run trans for their customer.. any way u look at it the trans was bad when he got it.. it should be covered.

The place you're going to check in to for me offer a warranty?

[SpooledupRacing]

on labor yes.

[ForceFed]

Labor is RARELY ever covered by anyshop..even on normal parts replacement..Usually parts are covered before anything...But I forgot..you know it all.

You ever worked in a Shop....Not behind the counter?

EDIT...And if labor was covered...then you have to say for how long?
I mean I am With pat here...but you my friend are bullheaded in your ideas.
How long in your mind is this labor to be covered for?
30 days..90....6 months?
1 yr....
This is a performance oriented part we are taling about here...He said he got this back in February....That was 6 months ago....Regardless of milage.

[pdhaudio83]

Labor is RARELY ever covered by anyshop..even on normal parts replacement..Usually parts are covered before anything...But I forgot..you know it all.

You ever worked in a Shop....Not behind the counter?

EDIT...And if labor was covered...then you have to say for how long?
I mean I am With pat here...but you my friend are bullheaded in your ideas.
How long in your mind is this labor to be covered for?
30 days..90....6 months?
1 yr....
This is a performance oriented part we are taling about here...He said he got this back in February....That was 6 months ago....Regardless of milage.

I've worked in a shop, labor always had a warranty.. i mean, if the mechanic didn't install brakes right, that shouldn't be the customer's fault should it? If a transmission builder over torqued something or messed up, he should fix it right? Labor warranty. Labor is the act of installing the part correctly, NOT the part causing failure due to an issue with the part. Labor warranty would cover transmission is if part was INSTALLED incorrectly... which many times can cause catastrophic damage due to incorrect tolerance/install

We covered labor depending on the job, usually 6 months unlimited miles, but lifetime labor on other non-wear items.

Its not about the part dude, its about the labor... if he installed it incorrectly its his ass, not the part's fault!

[ForceFed]

Regardless..its 6 months later..it went 1700 miles and now it fails....Its gonna be hard to get it covered.
And you must have worked for a Non Dealer type shop...Dealers dont warrany shit for Lifetime labor.

Labor usually runs out at max of a year depending on what it is.

No matter what..you ran on what you likely knew was a faulty trans from the get go....Do you not assume any resposibility for your negligence in recognizing something was not right.

Man..this sucks..I feel for you...and I dont want to argue with you..and I hate the fact that this is happening at all....But you have to come to the realization(more Dave than you) that this is a peformance application.....Which is usally not covered by a warranty like normal parts and installs.

Pat..I really am on your side...but Dave is a Hard headed dude man..Friend or not and like to bash on people and point out how everyone is doing things wrong....Which I think he does in an effort to make himself look better...but to me...makes him look worse.

Just my .02.

And Dave..if you dont like it...WAH!
Its how I really see it.

[Red5_02]

What I don't understand is why you don't have reciepts or contact information for this guy. Obviously Ken is too busy to deal with a $1500 transmission job that he set up and handled by himself up until this point. If he doesn't wanna deal with it fine, he should at least get you the necessary info to talk to this transmission "builder."

[Protege v2.5]

Pat
I really think you need to end this pointless argument. If you have had Ken come out and check the trans you could probably get some more face time with him to settle this dispute. right now you have 2 vendors bashing/ getting pissed at other vendors and I don't see this ending good. Just leave it at the fact that its up to to settle this with Ken.

[pdhaudio83]

What I don't understand is why you don't have reciepts or contact information for this guy. Obviously Ken is too busy to deal with a $1500 transmission job that he set up and handled by himself up until this point. If he doesn't wanna deal with it fine, he should at least get you the necessary info to talk to this transmission "builder."

Yeap.

Sigh. Chalk this one up to a lesson learned. Don't get work done by someone you don't know.\

Any further arguing about who's fault it is will be deleted.

[Protege v2.5]

unfortunately your at the biggest hurdle when it comes to the Pro. if you don't want to jump it then it's time move on. simple as that

[KrayzieFox]

Man it's a bad month for yellow Proteges, this really really sucks to hear. I remember when you posted that original video and I can't believe this is still the same tranny.

I'm not gonna comment on the liability issue that was discussed, but do whatever it takes to get this taken care of. Good luck :)

[iracemine]

what shims?? where do these shims go?? how do you check tolerances??

and sorry too hear about this dude:banghead:

get the par gearset!!!!

[SpooledupRacing]

Regardless..its 6 months later..it went 1700 miles and now it fails....Its gonna be hard to get it covered.
And you must have worked for a Non Dealer type shop...Dealers dont warrany shit for Lifetime labor.

Labor usually runs out at max of a year depending on what it is.

No matter what..you ran on what you likely knew was a faulty trans from the get go....Do you not assume any resposibility for your negligence in recognizing something was not right.

Man..this sucks..I feel for you...and I dont want to argue with you..and I hate the fact that this is happening at all....But you have to come to the realization(more Dave than you) that this is a peformance application.....Which is usally not covered by a warranty like normal parts and installs.

Pat..I really am on your side...but Dave is a Hard headed dude man..Friend or not and like to bash on people and point out how everyone is doing things wrong....Which I think he does in an effort to make himself look better...but to me...makes him look worse.

Just my .02.

And Dave..if you dont like it...WAH!
Its how I really see it.




I was an ASE certified mechanic and worked in a dealership for 6 years my friend..

Pat did the right thing he contacted him, explaind what happened had him on the phoen when he tried to get the car to roll etc.. Ken is the one that gave the advise and told him "just drive it"

And in the great state of Mi labor ALWAYS has a warranty

[CrashKelly]

Guys it ultimately comes down to the mechanic who did the work....he is at fault. Unless Ken received money as a middle man or somehow promoted the build through his shop he is not at fault and the point is moot.

Is Ken an asshole for recommending a shitty trans builder? well that is another story. I agree 100% with Dave about Ken. His customer service is crap. Sure you can order parts off the website with no problem, but god forbid you get the wrong order or you just want to ask a few questions before purchasing a high dollar item. I mean come one, do you know of any REAL businesses that dont have 24 hour customer service lines now-a-days??? I mean I am not saying he needs to do that, but people are making excuses for his shitty customer service based on the fact that he is too busy...to have himself or the staff pick up the phone??? I mean dude give me a break. Any other REAL business will have someone answer the phone when you call. The sad thing is that he has the time to cruise the forums for hours a day promoting his products and just posting in general threads, but he wont answer pms, emails, or call you back...That's why people stick up for him....because he is a contributing member (not to this forum really.... but the other one) and so he is seen as just "one of the guys" another "forum buddy"....And if Dave thinks he can give better customer service I say let him flame Ken as much as he wants...why does he have to respect some fake-ass "vendors dont bash other vendors" code?? It's called competition guys! If Dave thinks he can do better or would do better then I am glad he is saying it. I dont want to buy products from some asshole who would just say, "oh well you could also get it from Ken....I'm not willing to rep myself enough to get your business..."

That's why people like him and excuse his extremely poor customer service practices. I do feel bad for you Pat cause I think that even though Ken is not liable, he should at least be trying to help you with the reciepts or something because he should feel bad about what happened....and I just dont think that he feels that way. He gave his buddy some of your business and that was all it was to him.

[pdhaudio83]

I've just contacted PAR Engineering about 5th gear. While I HIGHLY doubt the gear was at fault, it makes no sense NOT to use better gears to REPLACE OEM gears.

[01protegemp3]

Guys it ultimately comes down to the mechanic who did the work....he is at fault. Unless Ken received money as a middle man or somehow promoted the build through his shop he is not at fault and the point is moot.

Is Ken an asshole for recommending a shitty trans builder? well that is another story. I agree 100% with Dave about Ken. His customer service is crap. Sure you can order parts off the website with no problem, but god forbid you get the wrong order or you just want to ask a few questions before purchasing a high dollar item. I mean come one, do you know of any REAL businesses that dont have 24 hour customer service lines now-a-days??? I mean I am not saying he needs to do that, but people are making excuses for his shitty customer service based on the fact that he is too busy...to have himself or the staff pick up the phone??? I mean dude give me a break. Any other REAL business will have someone answer the phone when you call. The sad thing is that he has the time to cruise the forums for hours a day promoting his products and just posting in general threads, but he wont answer pms, emails, or call you back...That's why people stick up for him....because he is a contributing member (not to this forum really.... but the other one) and so he is seen as just "one of the guys" another "forum buddy"....And if Dave thinks he can give better customer service I say let him flame Ken as much as he wants...why does he have to respect some fake-ass "vendors dont bash other vendors" code?? It's called competition guys! If Dave thinks he can do better or would do better then I am glad he is saying it. I dont want to buy products from some asshole who would just say, "oh well you could also get it from Ken....I'm not willing to rep myself enough to get your business..."

That's why people like him and excuse his extremely poor customer service practices. I do feel bad for you Pat cause I think that even though Ken is not liable, he should at least be trying to help you with the reciepts or something because he should feel bad about what happened....and I just dont think that he feels that way. He gave his buddy some of your business and that was all it was to him.

writing a novel?? lol i kid i kid

[Protege v2.5]

Guys it ultimately comes down to the mechanic who did the work....he is at fault. Unless Ken received money as a middle man or somehow promoted the build through his shop he is not at fault and the point is moot.

Is Ken an asshole for recommending a shitty trans builder? well that is another story. I agree 100% with Dave about Ken. His customer service is crap. Sure you can order parts off the website with no problem, but god forbid you get the wrong order or you just want to ask a few questions before purchasing a high dollar item. I mean come one, do you know of any REAL businesses that dont have 24 hour customer service lines now-a-days??? I mean I am not saying he needs to do that, but people are making excuses for his shitty customer service based on the fact that he is too busy...to have himself or the staff pick up the phone??? I mean dude give me a break. Any other REAL business will have someone answer the phone when you call. The sad thing is that he has the time to cruise the forums for hours a day promoting his products and just posting in general threads, but he wont answer pms, emails, or call you back...That's why people stick up for him....because he is a contributing member (not to this forum really.... but the other one) and so he is seen as just "one of the guys" another "forum buddy"....And if Dave thinks he can give better customer service I say let him flame Ken as much as he wants...why does he have to respect some fake-ass "vendors dont bash other vendors" code?? It's called competition guys! If Dave thinks he can do better or would do better then I am glad he is saying it. I dont want to buy products from some asshole who would just say, "oh well you could also get it from Ken....I'm not willing to rep myself enough to get your business..."

That's why people like him and excuse his extremely poor customer service practices. I do feel bad for you Pat cause I think that even though Ken is not liable, he should at least be trying to help you with the reciepts or something because he should feel bad about what happened....and I just dont think that he feels that way. He gave his buddy some of your business and that was all it was to him.

Read the end of post #82

I've just contacted PAR Engineering about 5th gear. While I HIGHLY doubt the gear was at fault, it makes no sense NOT to use better gears to REPLACE OEM gears.

The double negative is throwing me off..lol. You are considering the PAR set?

[pdhaudio83]

Read the end of post #82



The double negative is throwing me off..lol. You are considering the PAR set?

just fifth, not an entire (1-5 R) gearset.

[CrashKelly]

writing a novel?? lol i kid i kid

hah yeah sorry but sometimes I get heated about stuff...i know it's just the internet!

[CrashKelly]

Read the end of post #82



sorry had to get my 2 cents in

[neox.286]

hah yeah sorry but sometimes I get heated about stuff...i know it's just the internet!

http://blogs.technet.com/photos/gray_knowlton/images/2998979/original.aspx

[FunkRider]

...You should have pulled it out 100% when it stalled the FIRST time. You are going to have problems with this down the road.

From this thread http://www.themazdaforum.com/showthread.php?p=121709#post121709

[pdhaudio83]

From this thread http://www.themazdaforum.com/showthread.php?p=121709#post121709

I like how you edited the shift fork out of your quote. ;)

[Raider]

Fugget. MS3 conversion time. Get yourself some 6th gear loving!

Or an 09 RX-8 R3...just too sweet of a ride!!

[kansei]

Sucks pat, but honestly is it worth dumping more and more money into a FWD economy car? You're trying to get it to sports car power levels and of course there are hurdles along the way at every step because the car just wasn't designed for anywhere near that kind of power.

I know it's a tough choice especially now that you're in a situation where you need to rebuild the transmission anyway but.. there's lots of options.
- buy a used stock unmolested transmission, turn the boost down.
- rebuild with oem 5th, turn the boost down.
- buy a car that can handle the power numbers you want. Unless you're driving around on big sticky drag tires every day the power level your car making isn't all that useful.

it's a sucky situation. I feel your pain :)

[FunkRider]

I like how you edited the shift fork out of your quote. ;)

lol I semi take it back as being 100% a shift fork problem. Something else is amuck with that tranny me thinks. Could be a shift fork problem as well as something else goofy though.

[iracemine]

tiz weird to see that shit happen to someone else...(the vid) when I got my car back from the track my car would bog down (and go no where) in 1st, 5th, and reverse. I also had no neutral (was in gear, possibly 3rd). but mine was a shift fork problem I just think the broken part fell amongst the selectors or some shit like that and well I wasent doing 120MPH at the time of failure so it didint destroy something else.

[SpooledupRacing]

Guys it ultimately comes down to the mechanic who did the work....he is at fault. Unless Ken received money as a middle man or somehow promoted the build through his shop he is not at fault and the point is moot.

Is Ken an asshole for recommending a shitty trans builder? well that is another story. I agree 100% with Dave about Ken. His customer service is crap. Sure you can order parts off the website with no problem, but god forbid you get the wrong order or you just want to ask a few questions before purchasing a high dollar item. I mean come one, do you know of any REAL businesses that dont have 24 hour customer service lines now-a-days??? I mean I am not saying he needs to do that, but people are making excuses for his shitty customer service based on the fact that he is too busy...to have himself or the staff pick up the phone??? I mean dude give me a break. Any other REAL business will have someone answer the phone when you call. The sad thing is that he has the time to cruise the forums for hours a day promoting his products and just posting in general threads, but he wont answer pms, emails, or call you back...That's why people stick up for him....because he is a contributing member (not to this forum really.... but the other one) and so he is seen as just "one of the guys" another "forum buddy"....And if Dave thinks he can give better customer service I say let him flame Ken as much as he wants...why does he have to respect some fake-ass "vendors dont bash other vendors" code?? It's called competition guys! If Dave thinks he can do better or would do better then I am glad he is saying it. I dont want to buy products from some asshole who would just say, "oh well you could also get it from Ken....I'm not willing to rep myself enough to get your business..."

That's why people like him and excuse his extremely poor customer service practices. I do feel bad for you Pat cause I think that even though Ken is not liable, he should at least be trying to help you with the reciepts or something because he should feel bad about what happened....and I just dont think that he feels that way. He gave his buddy some of your business and that was all it was to him.





I told myself to not even LOOK at this thread anymore because I got to heated last time.. However I have to say this

I NEVER said I was better then KEN.. EVER.. and I never will. He is not my competition IMO he sells and builds stuff at this time I have no desire to. Not only that but I do believe that GREAT customer service and quality parts will win every time. sometimes it just takes a while for the masses to find it out.

I will say this though.

ANYONE who has asked for a price quote or bought anything from me is 100% able to get my CELL PHONE NUMBER (and many of you DO HAVE IT) that I will answer 24/7 (not that I like to take calls after midnight) but I will accept calls or text messages ANYTIME to help out a car person.

In what I do it is ONLY ME.. nobody else, even my own wife don't help in any way.. I run the entire show.. and it may not be big but I do everything I can to make it right EVERY TIME.

With that being said I am done with this thread.. Pat u know when/where to reach me give me a shout anytime u need anything, and I have my trans guy looking into all of that for ya he said it would be a few days before he could get back to me but sometimes the good stuff takes a little extra time.


If anyone else wants to try their hand at some GREAT customer service.. u know how to reach me.

[ForceFed]

wow.....
(Shamless plug once again)
*sarcasm*
er...not

[neox.286]

dave we all applaud you for your customer service, however your operation pales in size to what ken does

ken not only is doing local deals, he also does a lot of fabrication and testing, as well as working with the community to get parts developed for many different cars....his staff is not large, and that is the only reason his customer service has come off bad to you

ken is a busy guy, if he were not so busy and were running a business that only sells parts that are developed elsewhere THEN I would agree that his customer service skills are bad...but hes not just getting parts quote and placing orders

busy people dont have time to answer every phone call or every e-mail that comes their way, especially if they are short staffed....mom and pop operations will ALWAYS have better customer service because of this, however his operation is a business...not a small store that knows every single customer that gets thrown its way

[CrashKelly]

http://blogs.technet.com/photos/gray_knowlton/images/2998979/original.aspx

Hahaha I cant believe you posted that! I was thinking exactly of that pic after I wrote that long ass paragraph! Classic!

[CrashKelly]

Seriously guys, I know I participated in the Ken Vs. Dave crap....but this is Pat's thread about his wasted Trans....

[01protegemp3]

Guys it ultimately comes down to the mechanic who did the work....he is at fault. Unless Ken received money as a middle man or somehow promoted the build through his shop he is not at fault and the point is moot.

Is Ken an asshole for recommending a shitty trans builder? well that is another story. I agree 100% with Dave about Ken. His customer service is crap. Sure you can order parts off the website with no problem, but god forbid you get the wrong order or you just want to ask a few questions before purchasing a high dollar item. I mean come one, do you know of any REAL businesses that dont have 24 hour customer service lines now-a-days??? I mean I am not saying he needs to do that, but people are making excuses for his shitty customer service based on the fact that he is too busy...to have himself or the staff pick up the phone??? I mean dude give me a break. Any other REAL business will have someone answer the phone when you call. The sad thing is that he has the time to cruise the forums for hours a day promoting his products and just posting in general threads, but he wont answer pms, emails, or call you back...That's why people stick up for him....because he is a contributing member (not to this forum really.... but the other one) and so he is seen as just "one of the guys" another "forum buddy"....And if Dave thinks he can give better customer service I say let him flame Ken as much as he wants...why does he have to respect some fake-ass "vendors dont bash other vendors" code?? It's called competition guys! If Dave thinks he can do better or would do better then I am glad he is saying it. I dont want to buy products from some asshole who would just say, "oh well you could also get it from Ken....I'm not willing to rep myself enough to get your business..."

That's why people like him and excuse his extremely poor customer service practices. I do feel bad for you Pat cause I think that even though Ken is not liable, he should at least be trying to help you with the reciepts or something because he should feel bad about what happened....and I just dont think that he feels that way. He gave his buddy some of your business and that was all it was to him.

I told myself to not even LOOK at this thread anymore because I got to heated last time.. However I have to say this

I NEVER said I was better then KEN.. EVER.. and I never will. He is not my competition IMO he sells and builds stuff at this time I have no desire to. Not only that but I do believe that GREAT customer service and quality parts will win every time. sometimes it just takes a while for the masses to find it out.

I will say this though.

ANYONE who has asked for a price quote or bought anything from me is 100% able to get my CELL PHONE NUMBER (and many of you DO HAVE IT) that I will answer 24/7 (not that I like to take calls after midnight) but I will accept calls or text messages ANYTIME to help out a car person.

In what I do it is ONLY ME.. nobody else, even my own wife don't help in any way.. I run the entire show.. and it may not be big but I do everything I can to make it right EVERY TIME.

With that being said I am done with this thread.. Pat u know when/where to reach me give me a shout anytime u need anything, and I have my trans guy looking into all of that for ya he said it would be a few days before he could get back to me but sometimes the good stuff takes a little extra time.


If anyone else wants to try their hand at some GREAT customer service.. u know how to reach me.

You guys should honestly write a book lol call it "The Major Dispute"



















once again my .02
p.s... i havent had bad bussiness from (ken)PG

[iracemine]

mmmnnnn PAR

YouTube - PAR Straight Cut Gearset 2

[autoxes]

That sounds delicious. I LOVE straight cut gears

[kansei]

just remove your transmission drain plug and drive around for about a hundred miles, third gear will sound like that. trust me

delicious indeed

[Dsquared_sleeper]

Ken seems like a stand-up guy, honestly. I have purchased numerous products from him...that I did get (as long as I don't get directly scammed, then I rarely hold a grudge). The only issue I've had is that each and every time I have ordered something, it has taken a long time to get to my doorstep. Also, getting a hold of him hasn't always been easy. However, from my "gut" feeling I do believe he means well, and he sells his products at a great price. In the end, even after long shipping times and tedious back-and-forth emails, I still purchase products from him.

[TheMAN]

Ok..This is likely gonna Piss off a few people..but here is my take anyway...

You guys know how I am..I call it like I see it..no matter whose feelings get hurt.

Pat...Fitrst off....You cannot completely lay the blame on anyone for this failure.
You knew there was an Issue from the get go...Yet you fought with the tranny (literally) until you though it Broke in....Now seriously....Tell me the last time you have ever heard of a tranny in which you cannot even move the gear lever?

You cant..because it doesn't happen.

Now , yes..if the build was done incorrectly...There is some liability there for someone other than yourself...But you continued to drive on this tranny when from the get go it had Issues...Known issues...Issues you came to the forum for help with.

I would have yanked that thing right back out and shipped it down the road...especially if i spent that much money building it up.

Now...I don't know what has transpired since the Transmission blew this time between you and Ken....But I hope you two can come to an ammicable agreement on what is to be done to remedy the situation.

I do feel for you...But In all honesty..There is a Reason I know I send my stuff to....If I send it out to anyone at all.

My real life motto...If you want something done right....Do it yourself.


People are lazy these days and it drives me insane....I cant tell you the amount of people I would like to cause bodily harm to on a daily basis because of the ignorance they display.

Half of the country is pure plain and simple, flat out morons....and I wish Darwin would get off his ass and get to work.'


Wow...WTH were we talking about?
omg!!!!!11111!!!! you asshole! you spoke the truth!!!1111111!!!!111

[CaptainKRM]

thanks to edwin for pointing this thread out to me. i don't normally venture on this forum, which is no disrespect to the people here, just that 247 and mazdaspeedforums keep me busy on top of everything else i have going on here.

i'm not going to indepth address the repetitive attacks on my customer service. i know i've been hard to reach in the past and made some goofs. i've been working to correct alot of those and make myself easier to reach - hired people, fired people, gotten more phone numbers, emails, revamped websites, cut off bad suppliers, et al. i'm not perfect and i'll admit it. but i do have a good long list of satisfied customers and try to make right the people that didn't get the best service. anyone who doesn't think so, feel free to PM here and i'll send you my cell phone number so we can hash it out. i don't care if it was two minutes ago or two years ago. if there is something i need to fix, go ahead and take the moment to let me know. i wouldn't still be in business after 6+ years if I was a complete hack with no care for the people who buy from me. Numerically and statistically speaking, not possible for a niche market parts supplier.

as for the transmission, its time for another angle of the story to be presented here. in no way did i ever tell pat i was going to leave him high and dry. never once did i say i was going not help him out. i would like to see, in writing, where i ever told pat "tough luck". every conversation i had with pat - on the phone especially - I said that if it could be reliably proven that something we did fucked up that transmission, that I would be there behind it.

As for my transmission guy "getting out of the business", thats not in reference to him skipping town. He left Mazda and Subaru and works as an engine mechanic and builder in the motorcycle industry. Its not as though I called him up, said that there was a problem, and he suddenly packed his bags like a delinquent father escaping child support. This mechanic built my transmission, and has built two others for me in the years prior to Pat's transmission. Not one of those units has ever had a problem.

When the transmission first had issues and when 5th gear failed I went to someone who is about as expert as an expert gets when it comes to these transmissions - Dana (speedcircuit). Say what you want about him as a moderator on 247, his skills on a bench or with a wrench are second to none when it comes to an FS-DE or GMx5R transmission. I went over the ins and outs of what could have gone wrong on the road, during an install, after the install, during assembly, etc. I don't know how familiar any of you are with 5th gear on this car. It is seperated from the case and seperate from the rest of the gears. 5th gear could be changed independently from the other gears without interfering with the main shafts or locking nuts etc. The only thing allowing passage even from the inside of the case to 5th gear is the oil feed tray.

Now, anyone who has built this transmission knows that the oil feed tray is very fragile. It is easy to break during an assembly or install or removal of the inspection cap. If the tray breaks for any reason, 5th gear is going to fail. If we had pulled the inspection cap from the transmission and found that the oil feed tray was broken, I would have immediately and unconditionally accepted responsibility for the transmission and its failure.

This was not the case. Lubrication to the gear was intact, the feed tray was intact and had even survived 5th gear coming apart underneath it. Lets be logical here. The transmission locked up - by Pat's admission to me - on day he had run the car at the dragstrip, had been pulling into 5th gear at triple digit speeds, and when 5th gear failed on a stock gear. If a gear comes apart and you have bits of teeth now lodged in the rest of the transmission, it seems fair to at least consider that such debris is going to lock up the trans or make it very hard to shift.

I recall recommending at least a GTX 5th gear before our mechanic worked on the transmission, and having that declined. Pat was told by another vendor that 5th gear never breaks in these cars. As many of you know, on higher horsepower Proteges, thats especially not true.

Transmissions don't run well or even fair for close to 2000 miles if they were point blank assembled wrong. You can't log that many miles at that level of horsepower on a gear that was installed wrong. My opinion, and the consensus of the shops and mechanics I have talked to in length about this, is that total failure of this magnitude from shoddy workmanship would have been immediate on this transmission.

As for a warranty being a must on performance related work, I'm not going to be rude, but that is far from the norm in any shop I have ever dealt with. No transmission, engine or performance shop is going to warranty anything when it comes to aftermarket parts being fitted, installed, shoe-horned, etc into a vehicle. Not in chicago, not in milwaukee and not in any of the shops I have dealt with in California or Florida.

Here is what really pisses me off; when I even told anyone why I was driving 550 miles round trip to Michigan on a weekend, you would not believe how many people told me I was an idiot to even make the trip. Sears Auto doesn't do housecalls. When you have a problem with a car you are responsible to bring that problem or car back to the shop. Pat was unwilling - and moreso, financially unable - to do that. I spent over $120 in fuel which I will never see back, hours in Chicago crap traffic and time away from my family and you're going to tell me thats the mentality of someone who is set on screwing his customer? Pat doesn't have a source of income and I knew that. He did, as we left, offer to paypal me some gas money. I don't expect that and frankly I don't want it and would refuse at this point if he sent it.

You don't like me? Don't buy from me. You have had a problem with me in the past or my service? I accept that - I've been slow, made mistakes, had problems and I will be the first to admit that. But don't sit here and tell me that when I made no money from day one on this transmission job and then drove six hours to potentially see if it was indeed my fault is out to screw his customer or doesn't give a damn about them. We even offered to stay and help pull the trans and Pat said 1/4 way into that it wasn't worth our time to stay, he was sorry for having us make the trip.

Use your brains people. If I wanted to do nothing more than screw Pat, I would have told him to eat that transmission and take a hike. I wouldn't have answered his cell phone calls. I wouldn't have called him back. I wouldn't have driven as far as I did on the crappiest traffic day of the week on the crappiest freeway system in the USA and wasted that time money and gas just to screw Pat. I even offered, and the offer still stands, to buy Pat another 5th gear.

For those that stuck up for me, thank you. For those who still think I'm a bad guy here, at least recognize that I did more than the sitting on my thumbs that you'd like to so quickly accuse me of. I'm sure the sharks will come out and chew this post up, kickstart the blame game and bash away. I'm going to my best to not get drawn into that. I've posted my side of things for whatever that's worth (likely zip) and thats about where I stand on this.

[CaptainKRM]

Pat
I really think you need to end this pointless argument. If you have had Ken come out and check the trans you could probably get some more face time with him to settle this dispute. right now you have 2 vendors bashing/ getting pissed at other vendors and I don't see this ending good. Just leave it at the fact that its up to to settle this with Ken.

i am not bashing anyone. i don't even know who dave/spooledup is, nor do i really care. if pat wanted to talk to me more about the issue, he knows how to reach me and i'll provide cell phone logs showing that since my visit he has made no calls to me.

What I don't understand is why you don't have reciepts or contact information for this guy.

i'll give pat the guys new phone number if i find it by do some digging at this guys old job. please tell me what good it is going to do for pat to call this person however.


either way business is business I hope for both KEN and Pats sake this mess gets cleaned up.. because neither one of them deserve to feel like shit.. and I know Pat does.. and if Ken is as nice of a guy as u guys says he is he should feel like crap.

i do feel crap, regardless of whose fault i think or don't think it is


In terms of getting those receipts I've been told no less than 6 times that he'd get them for me. I gave up asking in April. Still nothing.

you want them, they are yours. the only reason you don't already have them is after my visit you seemed to close the door on the issue

At this point, I think I'll request some info about the build- along the lines that Focus mentioned. For over a grand I'd expect that tolerances and backlash had been checked. I also have never gotten (after about 7 times of asking) receipts to show work performed (such as cryo treatment).

I'm feeling sad that this has to happen and that Ken is in the middle, but he's the one that had good things to say, so I trusted him.

you have not called me or emailed me for any information since i drove to michigan

he should'nt have to that tranny was built to hold the power the problem was the build was SHOTTY..


besides the engine was built to hold the power too..

5th gear was not built to hold the power. end of story. if 5th gears didn't break i wouldn't waste my time selling the GTX replacements to people who have broken them. And to be honest, anything at or above 300whp will usually break one or both of those as well.



I like Ken, but I don't think his builder did me right.

thats not at all what you said to me when zach and i were there. you said "looks like it is my fault"

I was not provided any information on this. Ken insisted the guy had done many Protege transmissions before, but I don't know directly if that's true at all.

we checked for shaft play and side to side play/clearancing on your fork and shaft when we pulled the inspection cap at your house. it was not out of spec. the transmission was run through all gears by my mechanic and me personally before you came to pick it up.

pat, i'm still willing to help defray the costs on this (god knows why i suppose), if the parties involved drop the finger pointing machismo and resort to meaningful rational approach. for my part, i think i've done a little more than god and country would ask frankly. pat, i called and left you a voicemail. feel free to hit me back if you want. i'd like to talk with you about this regardless of what direction the conversation swings.

[Super Matty P]

I've had NUMEROUS dealings with Ken and only one sour transaction. I wouldn't have much of a problem doing business with him again because I've seen firsthand how far he'll go to make stuff right.

Sounds like this is just a typical internet mis-communication. I know how it is when you have money invested into something and it fails on you. I've been burned by people, I'm sure we all have at some point. You tend to take things more personal or have less patience when you're on the end Pat is on. I see both sides of the story.

Bottom line though, If Ken warranties a performance transmission in a car making 2.5Xs the OE power level then he's the first vendor in the world to do so.

[CaptainKRM]

I've had NUMEROUS dealings with Ken and only one sour transaction. I wouldn't have much of a problem doing business with him again because I've seen firsthand how far he'll go to make stuff right.

Sounds like this is just a typical internet mis-communication. I know how it is when you have money invested into something and it fails on you. I've been burned by people, I'm sure we all have at some point. You tend to take things more personal or have less patience when you're on the end Pat is on. I see both sides of the story.

Bottom line though, If Ken warranties a performance transmission in a car making 2.5Xs the OE power level then he's the first vendor in the world to do so.

hey matty, PM or call me up if you still have my number. good to hear from you otherwise, been a while. wouldn't mind shooting the breeze.

[Super Matty P]

I did like you and opened my own shop now. Working 65hrs a week. not much fun but the pay is great! im on AIM now if you wanna chat

[neox.286]

wow, I had no idea that you had gone that far out of your way to help pat out! and I thought you guys were really going out of your way for me when I spoke to you guys about that microtech issue I'm in the middle of! (aim: rpetz1989 if you don't recall)

it's good to see your side of the story here ken....like matty was saying, it seems like all of this is a big internet misunderstanding, people don't tend to worry about what they say on the internet...

[Protege v2.5]

i am not bashing anyone. i don't even know who dave/spooledup is, nor do i really care. if pat wanted to talk to me more about the issue, he knows how to reach me and i'll provide cell phone logs showing that since my visit he has made no calls to me.


I was talking about ForceFed and SpooledUpRacing, sorry if there was a misunderstanding. With forcefed not being an "official" one you may have thought I was talking about you.

Thank you for chiming in. Hopefully this will clear things up for a few stubborn few.

[pdhaudio83]

I'm sick of this bullshit. I'm out in Wyoming. Thread closed for now. Ken, I see you called me. I think I'm a bit too upset to even care now. I don't think I should have to be too much on the offensive here.

Done and over with. I don't think I sprouted shit about Ken's business, but I did post questions publicly. I just think I need to get rid of the car.

This whole situation fucking blows. It sucks for Ken, it sucks for me. Ken's a good guy. I got angry because I didn't deal with his guy directly.

Lesson learned, game over.