Turbo done -- help diagnose problems

[KrayzieFox]

Ok, so the turbo install is 100% COMPLETE as of 5 PM today. I started her up, and she purrs like a kitten. Idle is perfect at ~850-900 rpm, vacuum reads ~18, fuel pressure is reading 30 psi, oil pressure is at 20-25 psi, and a/f ratio reads between 14.1-15.5 (orange area.. running lean).

It feels great, but I'm not 100% sure if those readings are exactly what I'm going for. What's optimal oil & fuel pressure, vacuum, and a/f at idle? It's ok if it's lean at idle right? I didn't run it at WOT so I dunno what those readings are yet.. but I'm guessing they should be below 12.0 right?

Next up (really bad..) is a coolant leak of some sort. After going back and forth on my street (6 psi, went into boost only twice) I came back home and there was all sorts of smoke coming off the turbo. I looked closer, and the smoke is actually coming from the j-pipe, where it looks like coolant is pooling up and burning off. I checked the coolant lines to and from turbo, and they're both dry so I see no leaks. But I did stick my head under the car and notice that the drops form on the oil return line tap (one with the allen bolts securing it) and fall down on the j-pipe from there.

I also made sure to smell the exhaust for any coolant smell, because I was thinking that the leak may be internal and causing coolant to go into the exhaust. However, the exhaust smells fine, it just smells like exhaust.

Second thing I made sure was to remove the hot pipe leading to the FMIC to make sure that coolant isn't being sucked into the intercooler, which it isn't .. and that makes sense cuz the car runs awesome. No CEL's or anything..

And that's about all I've done so far. I'm quite certain that the leak is on the exhaust side of the turbo, and quite possibly coming from the coolant feed line tap on the turbo.

HELP!!!

[jeg0024]

pics?

[TheMAN]

if you're using the stock MSP coolant hose setup, check the following:
the 3-way water feed eblow... if yours is used, chances are it is the original design and it's shitty... the revised one should have a blue band on it which corrects the leakage problem
my upper radiator hose was leaking out of the water junction block at the engine... the stock clamp didn't apply enough force to it due to the fact that the O.D of the hose is smaller than the non-turbo rubber hoses and also there was crap built up on the pipe where the hose goes into... I moved the clamp closer to the end/flare and it stopped the leak... one day when I feel like taking that shit off, I'll clean off the build up shit and put the hose back on to permanently fix it

[neox.286]

sounds like the oil return gasket is bad
also on the allen bolts there are two metal o-rings that are supposed to go between the head of the bolt and the return tap piece

if that is okay then check the gasket between the return tap piece and the windage tray

if thats okay then check to make sure that your return hose isnt rubbing against any exhaust pieces and make sure that its sealed up good...I recommend throwing clamps on it or worm-gear clamps (both of which you can get at autozone)...I believe the hose is a 5/8", which if it is bad you can pick up that hose from autozone in the form of heater hose (works great)


glad to hear you got it all in! you must be loving life right now =)

[KrayzieFox]

pics?
In the morning ;)
if you're using the stock MSP coolant hose setup, check the following:
the 3-way water feed eblow... if yours is used, chances are it is the original design and it's shitty... the revised one should have a blue band on it which corrects the leakage problem
my upper radiator hose was leaking out of the water junction block at the engine... the stock clamp didn't apply enough force to it due to the fact that the O.D of the hose is smaller than the non-turbo rubber hoses and also there was crap built up on the pipe where the hose goes into... I moved the clamp closer to the end/flare and it stopped the leak... one day when I feel like taking that shit off, I'll clean off the build up shit and put the hose back on to permanently fix it
Yes, all parts are OE Mazda turbo components.

Are you referring to the 3-way silicone piece? I thought that was the water return, not feed. Regardless, that piece IS used and I don't think it has a blue band on it or anything. I don't think the leak is there though, cuz then coolant would be all over the place right? I only have a small amount that builds up on the piece of j-pipe gasket that sticks out, so I think it's on the backside of the turbo somewhere. I'll take a pic in the morning, possibly post up a video too.
sounds like the oil return gasket is bad
also on the allen bolts there are two metal o-rings that are supposed to go between the head of the bolt and the return tap piece

if that is okay then check the gasket between the return tap piece and the windage tray

if thats okay then check to make sure that your return hose isnt rubbing against any exhaust pieces and make sure that its sealed up good...I recommend throwing clamps on it or worm-gear clamps (both of which you can get at autozone)...I believe the hose is a 5/8", which if it is bad you can pick up that hose from autozone in the form of heater hose (works great)


glad to hear you got it all in! you must be loving life right now =)
That's a good thought, but if the oil return tap was leaking .. then it should be leaking oil, not coolant correct? The allen bolts do have the washers/gaskets on them, as does the piece that goes into the bottom of the turbo.

Return hose is clear, no rubbing at all.

And yes, I AM loving it very much. Problem is, I REALLY want to be out driving and getting used to the boost, but I can't until I figure out this leakage problem :(

[neox.286]

oh I misread above where you said that it is dropping onto that piece, not being sourced from there lol

yea check that 3-way hose piece....it wont usually leak a lot, mine leaked only a little bit on occassion

are the washer/gaskets on both of your feed and return metal water lines? (where the banjo fittings are)....probably a stupid question, but its a possibility....it might not be showing up on there because it is burning off of the turbo almost instantly (if you let it warm up first), it is basically water lol

other than that, not sure what else to tell ya lol....is it just like a couple drips on it? or is it a seriously leak? if it is only a couple drops I wouldnt stress over it too much

[KrayzieFox]

oh I misread above where you said that it is dropping onto that piece, not being sourced from there lol

yea check that 3-way hose piece....it wont usually leak a lot, mine leaked only a little bit on occassion

are the washer/gaskets on both of your feed and return metal water lines? (where the banjo fittings are)....probably a stupid question, but its a possibility....it might not be showing up on there because it is burning off of the turbo almost instantly (if you let it warm up first), it is basically water lol

other than that, not sure what else to tell ya lol....is it just like a couple drips on it? or is it a seriously leak? if it is only a couple drops I wouldnt stress over it too much
I think I need a new gasket on the water feed line.. or something along those lines. I'm pretty certain that's where the coolant is oozing out of. It's not a HUGE leak, but under pressure it does build up and ANY sort of leak is a big deal to me. Especially now that the car is turbo and heats up like a mother!!

[neox.286]

I can understand that

but there isnt really a 'gasket' for the feed and return lines, however there is a metal washer piece on both sides of the banjo fitting between the bolt head and the turbo housing....

check it again during the daytime and you might be able to find the leak better then...water leaks are usually easiest to find

[KrayzieFox]

The thing is that it doesn't do it at idle, or even if I rev up the engine. It's only under boost, and by the time I get the car back and pop the hood.. most of it has evaporated off the exhaust so there's no trace. Kind of a pain in the ass..

Either way I'm taking off the turbo tomorrow and double checking all the lines.

[neox.286]

if thats the case it sounds like its the water lines off of the turbo, which is the only area you modified that causes the water to flow through it at a higher rate under boost pressure

[TheMAN]

In the morning ;)

Yes, all parts are OE Mazda turbo components.

Are you referring to the 3-way silicone piece? I thought that was the water return, not feed. Regardless, that piece IS used and I don't think it has a blue band on it or anything. I don't think the leak is there though, cuz then coolant would be all over the place right? I only have a small amount that builds up on the piece of j-pipe gasket that sticks out, so I think it's on the backside of the turbo somewhere. I'll take a pic in the morning, possibly post up a video too.

That's a good thought, but if the oil return tap was leaking .. then it should be leaking oil, not coolant correct? The allen bolts do have the washers/gaskets on them, as does the piece that goes into the bottom of the turbo.

Return hose is clear, no rubbing at all.

And yes, I AM loving it very much. Problem is, I REALLY want to be out driving and getting used to the boost, but I can't until I figure out this leakage problem :(
yeah I meant water return.... replace that hose even if it's not leaking because it WILL one day... that hose has a tendency to just have small coolant seepage when it leaks and it sprays onto the engine block and runs down on it, or just drips right at where the return pipe fits into it and drips right off of there or sprays all over the WGA... there's the banjo bolts that go to the center housing of the turbo which is both water and return feed.... check they are torqued down right

best way to test for leaks is to just get into boost and drive the car hard around the block, stop right away, open the hood and look at where it's leaking while everything is still nice and hot past 212 degrees

[KrayzieFox]

Yeah that's what I was thinking, thanks for the advice Edwin.

[KrayzieFox]

Wait, let's backtrack a second here and go back to what neox was saying. I just took a sample of the fluid build up (once it was finally cool enough) and it's not coolant. It's oil after all.. but it smelled a hell of a lot like coolant.

The oil return piece that has the two allen bolts that go into it, does it have an actual metal gasket that goes between it and the turbo, or is it just that little rubber piece that's already on it? If it needs an actual metal gasket, then I'm missing it and that's quite possibly where my leak is coming from. If not, can I use RTV to form a gasket instead?

[TheMAN]

it's a rubber o'ring at the turbo... it's a gasket at the block

[Shasta]

This thread is useless without pics,:Yawn:


:ughdance:

When you get a chance.

[KrayzieFox]

This thread is useless without pics,:Yawn:


:ughdance:

When you get a chance.

Just for you my friend.. ;)

[Shasta]

Looks good , check out your thread on that Subie scammer, theres a link for you there, it may just help you.

[neox.286]

yea...o-ring at the turbo and paper gasket at the block

check to make sure that the oil return hose isn't leaking where it mates with the return hose fitting barb....and to be safe put a clamp on it (you can get a clamp at autozone, I recommend putting a worm-gear clamp on both sides)

edited

[SpooledupRacing]

sounds cool man CONGRATS.

[TheMAN]

its not a metal gasket, its a paper gasket...but yea...o-ring at the turbo and paper gasket at the block

check to make sure that the oil return hose isn't leaking where it mates with the return hose fitting barb....and to be safe put a clamp on it (you can get a clamp at autozone, I recommend putting a worm-gear clamp on both sides)
it's NOT a paper gasket if you bought the shit from mazda... prove to me that it is a paper gasket... you won't be able to... I can equally prove to you from many sources that it's a metal gasket... in fact I have a used one sitting around and it is NOT paper

I've worked on many MSPs and also installed the turbo all by myself on my own protege, I have never seen paper gaskets used on any of the turbo components

[neox.286]

wow dude, chill out

I confused in my head the gaskets that come with my t3 sorry, my bad!
chill

[red99pro]

u can smell coolant???

[TheMAN]

wow dude, chill out

I confused in my head the gaskets that come with my t3 sorry, my bad!
chill
you sound like a very confused person in this thread

[Red5_02]

u can smell coolant???

I can smell asshole...

(not you by the way)

[TheMAN]

maybe it's your upper lip :rollinglaugh:

[KrayzieFox]

Looks good , check out your thread on that Subie scammer, theres a link for you there, it may just help you.
Thanks man, I'll do that next.
sounds cool man CONGRATS.
And.. thank YOU! :D
u can smell coolant???
Yes, but it was actually oil .. so I dunno. Maybe my brain is confused from all this coolant and oil I've been around the past week and it doesn't know what's what anymore lol!
you sound like a very confused person in this thread

I can smell asshole...

(not you by the way)

maybe it's your upper lip :rollinglaugh:

And these three posts are NOT needed in my thread!! As much as Edwin (TheMAN) can be an asshole (no offense dude..), he does know his shit.. and so far he's been beyond helpful to me. Don't clog up my thread with this nonsense, I have actual questions and problems that I need to resolve so please take it on via PM or someplace else.

Thank you.

[TheMAN]

my asshole reputation depends on it! :D

[KrayzieFox]

Now that I got that out of the way, BACK ON TOPIC!!

So after collecting a small sample of the leakage this morning, I found out it was oil.. not coolant. And seeing as how I saw little drops coming off the return tap I figured that would be a good place to start, so I removed it from the turbo for inspection.

The rubber gasket looked ok, but it could be that it was starting to leak a little, so I used some RTV gasket maker around it (NOT on the actual rubber) to form a new gasket. And I also think I didn't tighten the allen bolts enough last time, so I made sure I torqued them down nice and snug.

And.. after refilling the oil once again I took her for another spin. At first, the smoke was still there, but didn't see any new build up so I thought that might have been just the stuff from last night still evaporating. I drove on for another 5 miles or so and just a tiny bit was still evaporating, but still no new build up. By the time I came home, the manifold was nice and clean, and no smoke or funky smells :D

In conclusion, problem FIXED :thumbs:

[KrayzieFox]

my asshole reputation depends on it! :D

Come on man.. why do you have to fuel the fire? Be "the man" and stop this nonsense.

I do have to thank you for your help over the last week. All your advice and suggestions have been spot on so far, and that helped a bunch cuz I didn't have to waste time and money on other nonsense.

[CTt3P5]

Congrats on getting the turbo installed and the leak fixed!

Now get out there and get vids of said boost!

[KrayzieFox]

Congrats on getting the turbo installed and the leak fixed!

Now get out there and get vids of said boost!

Tonight. I'll have to take my girlfriend home on a couple hours so I'll make a little video then ;)

[TheMAN]

Come on man.. why do you have to fuel the fire? Be "the man" and stop this nonsense.

I do have to thank you for your help over the last week. All your advice and suggestions have been spot on so far, and that helped a bunch cuz I didn't have to waste time and money on other nonsense.
I'm not too keen on the idea of having RTV there as pieces of that shit could flake/burn off and shoot straight into the oil pan... but it's ok if it's temporary... I'd replace it with a new o'ring if I were you... and then torque the bolts down right!

[neox.286]

you sound like a very confused person in this thread

you know what dude?
bite me
:thebirdman:

[KrayzieFox]

I'm not too keen on the idea of having RTV there as pieces of that shit could flake/burn off and shoot straight into the oil pan... but it's ok if it's temporary... I'd replace it with a new o'ring if I were you... and then torque the bolts down right!
Well.. I used the same thing to seal the oil pan so what's the difference? I mean it's not a problem to replace the o-ring but those allen bolts are a bitch to torque down. They strip way too easy..
you know what dude?
bite me
:thebirdman:
Dude.. come on? Easy..

[TheMAN]

use the right good quality METRIC allen socket with a long extension and it's not a problem

the difference here is, the oil pan was designed for use with this shit, the drainback isn't and there's also a lot more heat and lot of oil moving through there

[Discreet]

looks good and congrats on the job. vids?

[TheMAN]

ok... another idea to throw out there... I know you have an external tranny cooler, but if you still want to use the radiator's water cooler, your only choice of a radiator upgrade is to get the stock JDM diesel radiator as it was the only country to have diesel automatics... it's full width but with a 1" core instead of the puny stock P5 one and it's also a lot cheaper than an AWR

[KrayzieFox]

Really.. that's interesting info right there. Thanks, I'll look into it. How the hell do you know all this anyway?!

I was just looking at the Corksport radiator earlier tonight cuz after I left the AutoX yesterday I pulled in to fill up on gas and noticed the coolant boiling in the overflow tank. It WAS a really really hot day on top of the abuse at AutoX but I still wasn't too happy about boiling coolant. Strange thing was the engine temp was slightly below average like it usually is but the overflow tank was full and coolant was bubbling up.. maybe it just started when I noticed it.

Where can I get my hands on one of those JDM rads?

[TheMAN]

I can get it
300 shipped and its yours... brand new

here's pics of the manual one:
http://www.imazda.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13575

installing a 1.3bar radiator cap will help also... I can get those too

[KrayzieFox]

That sounds reasonable, but why would I pick this radiator over the Corksport one for example? I understand that this is the only upgrade for automatics but since I already have an auxillary cooler wouldn't I be better off with the aluminum CS one?

[TheMAN]

it's just an alternative and its something that fits right and will let you use the built in cooler if you wanted to in case your cooler for some reason over cools (not sure if you have a thermostat or not)