Rotaries and what oil. [Archive]

9K Redline

08-16-2008, 09:53 AM

Something people have to understand is that mechanical parts need the conventional fluids for break-in purposes. Racing Beat, Pettit, even Royal Purple state that somewhere on their websites. It allows for proper conditioning of the parts and allows them to wear into one another faster. Then you switch to synthetic fluids of your choosing.

I ran the Mazda crap oil for the first 15k and then switched to RP. Now I have 76xxx miles and she still runs beautifully, minus the crap idle from the factory. LOL I honestly hope the motor doesn't crap out til after the warranty, that way I can be there for the tear-down and post some pics of inner wear findings in the RENESIS. Otherwise Mazda gets the motor back.

SpooledupRacing

08-16-2008, 10:00 AM

yeah but thats nto 100% true anymore.. Now adays synthetics are made with new engines in mind.. and CAN be used on a BRAND NEW engine with no problems..

lets not forget that Idementsu (the rotary oil) is made by ELF (aka total) they have designed the oil FOR USE on the rotary engine and they also have the oil designed to be used out fo the crate

Total 5w30 for rotary with omp
Total (any weight) for rotary with out omp

jungleagent

08-16-2008, 01:32 PM

Yeah but they also recommend 5w20 lol

Your right they do recommend 5w20 for the Renesis because of the Oil Meter Pump. They need lighter and thinner oil to be pumped to lubricate our seals.

Now for the older rotaries they can use any type of oil the owner prefers wethers its 5w30, 5w50, diesel oil, 2-stroke oil, canola cooking oil or whatever because they have to premix their gasoline wih oil. And they do this buy inserting it through the gas tank. Its their own form of OMP.

For us 8 owners we have no need for that extra work since we have OMP.

jungleagent

08-16-2008, 01:39 PM

no its here say I have a buddy who used it in a tranny and his tranny died within about 6 months, after he had it rebuild he used it again and it died in about 6-8 mo.. then when he bought a performance tranny they told him DONT USE ROYAL PURPLE..

since then he has gone 2 years on the built trans.

no sales pitch..

btw read my post again

"RP is rough stuf so I have heard"

Now who really cares if RP is rough or not?
Oil is Oil.

Is Avian bottled water different from Fiji bottled water? Is one better for your health or your diet?
Its the same shit different pile.

Engine oil are made to lubricate engine components. I believe oil brand is based on preference of the owner.

SpooledupRacing

08-16-2008, 02:18 PM

Your right they do recommend 5w20 for the Renesis because of the Oil Meter Pump. They need lighter and thinner oil to be pumped to lubricate our seals.

Now for the older rotaries they can use any type of oil the owner prefers wethers its 5w30, 5w50, diesel oil, 2-stroke oil, canola cooking oil or whatever because they have to premix their gasoline wih oil. And they do this buy inserting it through the gas tank. Its their own form of OMP.

For us 8 owners we have no need for that extra work since we have OMP.

Everything u just said was 100% wrong...

ALL rotary engiens have OMP's I removed mine because ENGINE OIL is not meant to be burned in the engien thus for it leaves deposists that will kill your engine..

the 5w20 was not recomended for weight because of the omp it was recomended because the 5w20 that mazda uses is rated to work in the engien and to be burned due to the chemical makeup and to leave less deposits..

all rotaries can have the omp pulled and u can premix yourself..

SpooledupRacing

08-16-2008, 02:24 PM

Now who really cares if RP is rough or not?
Oil is Oil.

Is Avian bottled water different from Fiji bottled water? Is one better for your health or your diet?
Its the same shit different pile.

Engine oil are made to lubricate engine components. I believe oil brand is based on preference of the owner.

You my friend have listened to the tv adds for to long...

all oil IS NOT THE SAME..

Anyone who believes this has never taken the time to closely breakdown what is in a oil..

Do u remember "perifin"

if u do then u know not all oil is the same, if u dont its time to take a look at some of the oil makers and look into what the oil is made of.

Penzoil is a perfin base oil and weather they say they are not anymore then lie..

mobil1 has perifin in it

Quaker for years had perifin in their oil however I have been told recently they have redesigned their oil..

and the difference between conventional oil and synthetic oil is a WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME..

Synthetic oils are COMPLETELY different.. depending on what base stocks the oils derive from, how much detergents are added, weather or not they are rated for a specific chemical compound..

Oils today are so much further advanced then they were even 5 years ago..

I think its time to do more reading..

and another thing... Mazda does not recomend Mobil 1 in their cars.. the reason why the caps say that (and with all other makers) is because mobil 1 paid for the owners manual to be made and for the oil caps to be made so their product name is in the book..

If u dont believe that u have alot to learn

btw that is comming direct form a Mobil 1 corp guy..

jungleagent

08-16-2008, 02:34 PM

Everything u just said was 100% wrong...

ALL rotary engiens have OMP's I removed mine because ENGINE OIL is not meant to be burned in the engien thus for it leaves deposists that will kill your engine..

the 5w20 was not recomended for weight because of the omp it was recomended because the 5w20 that mazda uses is rated to work in the engien and to be burned due to the chemical makeup and to leave less deposits..

all rotaries can have the omp pulled and u can premix yourself..

Your wrong! Not everyting I said was wrong. The recommended oil for the Renesis is 5w20.

Since your Mr "Know it all" when it comes to rotaries, why don't you argue that with engineers of the Renesis ask them why they recommend that oil. I don't think all those engineer school to be challenge on the recomendation of oil to the engine they designed.

Even better why don't you argue with any Master technician at a Mazda dealership that has more knowledge about the rotary engine than you. Are you going to tell me you know more than them? I don't recall you work at a Certified Mazda dealership ever. I know its dumb for me to argue with them because working on so much rotary engines is not my profession. Its a hobby for me.

SpooledupRacing

08-16-2008, 02:43 PM

again The oil (5w20) was not recomend for the car because of the WEIGHT and because the lighter oil is better for the omp..

the oil was recomended because 5w20 us spec oil is made to leave less ash in the engine thus why it is recomended to be used in the rotary engine..

Total (makers of Idementsu) recomends 5w30 why.. not because of weight but because that oil (european spec) has the correct formulation in it to leave less ash in the engine.

people need to quit thinking of oil as "weight" the US consumer has been sold on oil due to weight for so many years when weight REALLY has ntohing to do with it.. it is that oil oil MEETS the spec for the engine (not api all oils meet api specs)

and your right not everything u aid was wrong.. the oil cap on the renisses does say 5w20

but other weights that fit the same standards required will work..

btw there are MANY rotary techs in michigan... there is only 1 in the US imo that holds any weight.. Make Capezi at borgman Mazda..

being a tech dont mean squat.. I was an ASE certified tech for 6 years.... I still didnt know shit that I passed the books on lol.. I had lots to learn.

btw we all know engeneers are dumb... when was the last time u tried to work on yoru car and couldnt get to the part without 2 hours of work.. that would be the engeneers who dont knwo how a car works in order to make things accessible.

jungleagent

08-16-2008, 02:45 PM

You my friend have listened to the tv adds for to long...

all oil IS NOT THE SAME..

Anyone who believes this has never taken the time to closely breakdown what is in a oil..

Do u remember "perifin"

if u do then u know not all oil is the same, if u dont its time to take a look at some of the oil makers and look into what the oil is made of.

Penzoil is a perfin base oil and weather they say they are not anymore then lie..

mobil1 has perifin in it

Quaker for years had perifin in their oil however I have been told recently they have redesigned their oil..

and the difference between conventional oil and synthetic oil is a WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME..

Synthetic oils are COMPLETELY different.. depending on what base stocks the oils derive from, how much detergents are added, weather or not they are rated for a specific chemical compound..

Oils today are so much further advanced then they were even 5 years ago..

I think its time to do more reading..

and another thing... Mazda does not recomend Mobil 1 in their cars.. the reason why the caps say that (and with all other makers) is because mobil 1 paid for the owners manual to be made and for the oil caps to be made so their product name is in the book..

If u dont believe that u have alot to learn

btw that is comming direct form a Mobil 1 corp guy..

Its obvious with my anology we are talking the same TYPE of oil. With your conventional oil vs synthetic oil its like anology between spring bottled water vs carbonized bottled water.

Two totally different structures.

So Mazda does not recommend that Mobil 1 however they allowed them to pay for the owners manual?

Is this some sort of Rotary Conspiracy theory?:silly:

jungleagent

08-16-2008, 02:46 PM

Why dont we move our discussion else were Dave, we are trashing the purpose of this thread. Its about MPG now our debate over what is oil is best to use in the rotary.

SpooledupRacing

08-16-2008, 02:47 PM

Even better why don't you argue with any Master technician at a Mazda dealership that has more knowledge about the rotary engine than you. Are you going to tell me you know more than them?

some of them, maybe alot of them.. yes... cause many of them are still stuck in the carb 12a days and dont know what its like to work on a rotary.. and dont know that there are better ways around some of things that the rotary engine has by design flaw.

and on another note.. something nobody here ever knew was last year.. I went and took abotu 6 tests to get my license back (this time on rotary engines)

I am now certified to work on the internals of a rotary engine.

and Borgman Imports tried to hire me.

SpooledupRacing

08-16-2008, 02:50 PM

So Mazda does not recommend that Mobil 1 however they allowed them to pay for the owners manual?

Is this some sort of Rotary Conspiracy theory?:silly:

it has nothing to do with rotaries..

When Saturn came out Quaker State was the recomeneded oil and if u used anything else it would void the warranty (this was because Quaker state was trying to build the business back so they would cover the warranties on them so that people would use the product.

Saab recomends mobil 1 but again u can use whatever..

this battle has been going on forever and it will continue to for ever.. Oil will ALWAYS be the GREAT DEBATE!

SpooledupRacing

08-16-2008, 02:51 PM

Continued

jungleagent

08-16-2008, 02:58 PM

it has nothing to do with rotaries..

When Saturn came out Quaker State was the recomeneded oil and if u used anything else it would void the warranty (this was because Quaker state was trying to build the business back so they would cover the warranties on them so that people would use the product.

Saab recomends mobil 1 but again u can use whatever..

this battle has been going on forever and it will continue to for ever.. Oil will ALWAYS be the GREAT DEBATE!

Excatly! Back to my previous post. If you read back I said oil is based on what the owner prefers.

And on a side note I do a lot of reading about rotaries. I have switched out of Mobil1 since you informed me about how it builds gunk around the rotors. And when you do say something right I don't bring it up. Its when I think you might be wrong is when I challenge you in these discussions.

I use RP 5w20.

9K Redline

08-16-2008, 03:16 PM

Why dont we move our discussion else were Dave, we are trashing the purpose of this thread. Its about MPG now our debate over what is oil is best to use in the rotary.

I was about to say this needs to get back on topic and we need to stop picking at one another's "opinions" or "facts."

Now with that being said, my OPINION is that another reason for the recommendation for 5w20 is that the length of the average AMERICAN commute is between 20 and 30 minutes. This oil allows for the engine to come to proper operating temperatures within that specified time. Talking to other rotary guys that race the 8 and some 7s they recommend when going on long distance, high speed trips, you up the weight to prevent premature breakdown. That's their opinion based on some oil history. I run 5w30 because I've seen a motor that ran purely on 5w20 broken down after a seal blew at 60k and both housings had half mirror finishes on the inside where it wasn't lubricated. Hence the new 16x motor with 3 oil injectors and direct injection for fuel.

I could go on and on, but if anyone really cares to debate or continue this conversation we can do it elsewhere.

Again, I have only 5 1/2 yrs of research and play on rotaries as where the earlier years of my life were based in piston motors due to my family racing.

With that said, everyone go out and burn some oil and gas to get that Mazda lover smile back on your faces!

Later!

jungleagent

08-25-2008, 03:12 PM

Maybe this is the right place for my question Dave:

Why doesn't Total/ELf/Idumetsu oil make 5w20?

SpooledupRacing

08-25-2008, 03:16 PM

Because Elf/Total does not make oil per weight.. that and because the oil is made in FRANCE where cetian "weights" are not needed..

they only make

5w30
5w40
10w50

thats it..

and newer cars now adays dont need a "weight" it is what SPECS the oil meets/exceeds that matters and I am not talking abotu API specs that is on the back of EVERY us spec oil..

the ELF 5w30 SXR is what was SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED for rotary engines

jungleagent

08-25-2008, 03:20 PM

Do you sell oil filters as well?

SpooledupRacing

08-25-2008, 03:23 PM

sure do.. I stock the oil and filter.

jungleagent

08-25-2008, 05:12 PM

sure do.. I stock the oil and filter.

Hmmm. I might try this however I am a little worried. But no guts no glory. I wonder if I should do this after I get boosted or before. Hopefully I get my kit this weekend. Patience is not one of my virtues.

SpooledupRacing

08-25-2008, 05:15 PM

u should do it anytime u want.. it wont hurt yrou car at all.. just benifit.

and I sure hope u are not planning to boost yrou car and run it on a stock ecu..

you will be rebuilding an engine real quick.

jungleagent

08-25-2008, 05:28 PM

Piggyback comes with the kit.

SpooledupRacing

08-25-2008, 09:44 PM

ok a piggy back (depending on the brand) wont tune the timing curve or let the ECU read boost.

you have a link to what u bought or any info on the kit?

08-25-2008, 09:48 PM

Even better why don't you argue with any Master technician at a Mazda dealership that has more knowledge about the rotary engine than you. Are you going to tell me you know more than them? I don't recall you work at a Certified Mazda dealership ever. I know its dumb for me to argue with them because working on so much rotary engines is not my profession. Its a hobby for me.

pretty much every single mazda master technician i have talked to hates the rotary with a HUGE passion. they will see a old rotary come in, and its like cockroaches when the light goes on. they will all run away. so the car always goes to the shop foreman as he has the most experience. unfortunately, i have not come across 1 master tech that likes the engine. they love the car, just not the wankel

SpooledupRacing

08-25-2008, 09:51 PM

pretty much every single mazda master technician i have talked to hates the rotary with a HUGE passion. they will see a old rotary come in, and its like cockroaches when the light goes on. they will all run away. so the car always goes to the shop foreman as he has the most experience. unfortunately, i have not come across 1 master tech that likes the engine. they love the car, just not the wankel

so true we have one of the top 10 rotary mechanics in the US I think here local but u walk in there and nobody knows the answer to any question u have..