RX-9 To come in 2012 Gas and Hydrogen

[Riken]

Buyers of Mazda’s next-generation RX-8 really will be having a ‘gas’! That’s because the firm is planning to offer it with a hydrogen-powered engine, Auto Express can reveal.

In a bid to curb the current car’s high fuel consumption and emissions, Mazda has decided the only way to make its rotary engine clean and green is to offer a dual-fuel version capable of running on both hydrogen and petrol. Mazda has been experimenting with hydrogen power for more than two years now, firstly in the RX-8 Hydrogen RE, and more recently in the Premacy MPV.


Linky here. (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/225900/hydrogen-power-for-next-rx-8.html)

[njaremka]

thats cool. i like this better than straight hydrogen power, because then you wont have to rely on hydrogen filling station infrastructure to get around. mazda seems to be a very forward thinking car brand.

[emor8t]

awesome, cause then it can develop even less power than it already does.

[Riken]

Dont hate emo boy.

[emor8t]

color me disappointed. I'd like a rotary from the factory that has more power than a NA 4 banger.

[SpooledupRacing]

in 86 my rx7 had more power then any other mazda 4 cyl car offered

in 93 the rx7 had more power then any other 4 cylinder car mazda offered

[SpooledupRacing]

im not sure if I like the hydrogen option.

[Super Matty P]

hydrogen sucks. 20% mileage improvement?? That means (according to my own RX8) that this new version will get ALMOST 20mpg. Hurah!!

FALE.

I want a diesel rotary...now I know it'll never happen due to compression issues but it would sound KILLER.

[emor8t]

in 86 my rx7 had more power then any other mazda 4 cyl car offered

in 93 the rx7 had more power then any other 4 cylinder car mazda offered

sure mazda offered. GM had a 180 HP NA Quad motor, honda has the S2000 motor.

But really the point is moot. Because a hydrogen rotor engine will almost certainly put out less power. Considering BMW can only manage to crank out 260 HP out of a V12 that normally puts out over 430, a reduction of 60% means a hydrogen rotor motor would put out about 150.

A neat idea for the 5 or 6, but not Mazdas flagship sports car.

[SpooledupRacing]

I agree I think hydrogen is not the way to go...

and you cant compare apples to oranges.. if you want a rotary that puts out more hp's then EVERY 4cyl ever made.. it wont happen..

now if u think more realistic like a rotary that puts out any 4 cyl ever made by the SAME company.. then it did just that..

Mazda is not into making super cars.. well not for production. they are into class, sporty, but the every day car..

the rotary car is the only thing that steps outside f that however the rx8 is the first rotary car they made that IMO made it a "every day everybodys car"

[njaremka]

i like the concept because it shows mazda looking into different avenues from the other manufacturers. the other concept for the rotary that would be sweet would be a hybrid drivetrain.

[SpooledupRacing]

I still think that hydrogen, or whatever u wanna use is fine.. but NOT in a rotary..

keep it in the piston engine cars..

IMO Rotary driven cars are not for everyone they are Mazdas "sports cars" and they should stay gas and powerful.

IMO hydrogen sports cars is like another way of saying "we give up"

[MazdaTom]

In a bid to curb the current car’s high fuel consumption and emissions..........<snip>

The emissions of a hydrogen power plant is what? WATER VAPOR. Did you know that water vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas on the planet and contributes as much as 70% to the greenhouse effect?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

[Z]

the concept of hydrogen is great and all. but the energy needed to create hydrogen is huge! its not like hydrogen is just floating around. its going to take massive amounts of electricity to convert it, so the general public can use it. unfortunatly, i dont think it is viable. sure there are a few stations here and there, but imo its all PR. as soon as 1 car gets into an accident and blows up, the concept will be dead in its tracks. yes, they can strengthen the system to prevent it, but there are soo many people out there that dont take care of their cars, and they are the ones likley to pay.

[SATimko]

Chris and I saw the Mazda 5 Rotary Gas / Hybrid concept. Pretty cool stuff, but everyone else's points are valid.

[bazooka joe]

thats cool. i like this better than straight hydrogen power, because then you wont have to rely on hydrogen filling station infrastructure to get around. mazda seems to be a very forward thinking car brand.

fyi - they opened the first hydroben filling station in boston yesterday...they had 6 customers...that's 6 more than i thought they'd have!

[SpooledupRacing]

OK back on topic guys!

[Riken]

So how much is the price for it? Is it like in gallons?

[SpooledupRacing]

Yeah I am curious..

Now I have also heard that using hydrogen creates alot of heat (not sure if anyone knows) if so how do they think that the rotary engine will do with the added heat in the combustion chamber.

[Riken]

Also guy we dont know what what model of rotary engine is going in the car. So if the motor puts out more HP, then if it losses some been hydrogen it wont be much.

[SpooledupRacing]

as long as its not the new direct port its cool.

[jungleagent]

Thats great news for Rotary owners. They have a choice in what they can use in thier car.

[jungleagent]

I still think that hydrogen, or whatever u wanna use is fine.. but NOT in a rotary..

keep it in the piston engine cars..

IMO Rotary driven cars are not for everyone they are Mazdas "sports cars" and they should stay gas and powerful.

IMO hydrogen sports cars is like another way of saying "we give up"

Now why are you being pessimist?

Why would you think in your opinion that its another way of saying "we give up"?

I think its the other way around. Not only they did not give up on the fuel economy of the rotary, they found an alternate way to go around it the poor fuel consumption of the rotary. Wether they accomplished a better gas mileage on the rotary they at least tried to do something about it.

More than you or I can even tryto accomplish.

Thats better than saying lets drop the rotary technology and lets follow the rest of the world and go hybrid or lets stick to a 40 mpg piston engine that Toyota offers like the Corolla---(Which has a bigger displacement but is not even close in Horsepower). MPG is also relative to horsepower. With that said no other engine can have the same output as a rotary for the displacement. Now I choose HP more than better gas mileage and thats why I bought a rotary not a smart car.

Keep up the good work Mazda Engineers!!!

[SpooledupRacing]

I disagree.. the rotary engine is a GREAT IDEA and as long as Mazda engineers quit "tweeking" it it will be a GREAT idea for years to come..

but if u look at all the rotary models.. the engines have gotten WORSE in reliabilty as the years have went on..

the cosmo was FABULOUS.. the FB was GREAT,, the FC was AWSOME in 86-88 then with the introduction of ELECTONIC OMP in 89 it went downhill
FD's were problematic and the 8's are also problematic..

now they want to tweek it more and try hydrogen..

WHY cant a company leave a good thing alone..

in all due respect a new FC will outhandle an FD and 8 any day..

and power for weight the FB is prolly the fastest of all of them (minus the turbo cars)

Have u guys looked into HOW MUCH ENERGY it takes to create and burn hydrogen..

its liek the electric cars.. look at how much DAMAGE those batteries are doing to the world.

Top gear did a test...
Hummer H1 vs. toyota hybrid.

in the long run the H1 was better for the envrioment and less costly in 100K then the hybrid was..

[CrashKelly]

Top gear did a test...
Hummer H1 vs. toyota hybrid.

in the long run the H1 was better for the envrioment and less costly in 100K then the hybrid was..

The rest of the world needs to clue into this...

[kansei]

yeah they're both bad.

That being said, I didn't see it brought up in this thread but the rotary engine is especially good for hydrogen vs a piston engine.

I'll try to look up the article when I get back from lunch.

Oh and the Mazda5 Rotary Hydrogen concept car used the 16X.

[kansei]

IMO hydrogen sports cars is like another way of saying "we give up"

ah are you one of those people that thinks a car that doesn't run on gasoline can be any fun at all?

And for those talking about the environmental detestation from making batteries. Have you seen what an offshore oil platform does to the ecosystem in the surrounding ocean?

Did you know that 20x (or is it 22x) as much oil enters the ocean each year than entered the ocean in the massive Exxon oil spill catastrophe? This is from runoff (from storm drains and such) and to a much lesser extent offshore oil platform leaking.

Mazdatom, you bring up a good point about water vapour. People do like to forget that it is a greenhouse gas.

[SpooledupRacing]

ok ALL OF US INCLUDING ME back on topic.. this is getting out of hand.

[jungleagent]

Thanks Dave for deleting those post for me. Glad to rub shoulders with people with Godly powers.
;D

[SpooledupRacing]

hhah not hardley..

OK so whats the deal.. do we all REALLY think this will go into production?

[kansei]

If you've read up on the RX-8 gas/hydrogen it's not like it's some major thing. Sure it has no trunk since it has to have two fuel tanks, has two filler doors, etc but think of it as just a trim level. I like the idea as long as they keep the car light and nimble (doubt it, after seeing how the Mazda5 lost it's third row of seats and it's trunk). It gives the consumer choice. If they have access to hydrogen they can use it :)

[jungleagent]

Well hard to say Dave. There is also the 16x prototype which I think will be the engine used for the hydrogen/petrol option. But regardless if it has the option of the hydrogen, I would love to know what the 16x is capable of doing(whp) in terms of using true gasoline power.

[jungleagent]

Better yet what if they offered this motor in something super light like a Miata? That would be prolly my next purchase. Fast, light, nimble, great for autox.

[kansei]

I know the RX-8 hydrogen-gasoline was around before the 16x but the Mazda5 rotary hydrogen-gasoline used the 16x. 16x should be all around better. More torque, better fuel economy, more horsepower. winnnnn

and if someone chooses to make their RX-8 more fuel efficient when driving on the highway by flipping a switch and using the hydrogen tank, that's great too. It makes the car even more desirable to the general population.

Better yet what if they offered this motor in something super light like a Miata? That would be prolly my next purchase. Fast, light, nimble, great for autox.

a miata with even the current RX-8 motor would be lots of fun. A 16x would be overkill but still quite fun I'm sure. I think it would honestly be worse for autocross... a bit too much power for how lightweight the car is.

[SpooledupRacing]

there is a mazda 5 with a rotary engine in it from the production?

[kansei]

there is a mazda 5 with a rotary engine in it from the production?

oh sorry concept. It may have been limited production run just like the RX-8 hydrogen-gasoline hybrid was but don't quote me on that.

here's some pics I took of the 5..

here's the 16x:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2030/2205873686_5c9a8cef8c_b.jpg

here's the 5:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2062/2205861902_212f8a0d8d_b.jpg

dunno if I have pics of it but it has fuel filler doors on both sides, which would definitely be confusing for a driver if that was in the production model.


this is where the third row seats would normally be:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2164/2205093733_6a34e191fc_b.jpg

I think the most exciting part of it for me was that it was the first time I had ever seen a rotary engine of any sort in a FWD car, and it was even done by mazda :)

[SpooledupRacing]

I REALLY hope they dont start putting rotary engines in fwd cars.. rotary engines belong in RX cars only..

RX = Rotary Xperiment

[kansei]

I REALLY hope they dont start putting rotary engines in fwd cars.. rotary engines belong in RX cars only..

RX = Rotary Xperiment

Ah you are one of those rotary people, the ones who don't want to see any even slightly mass market appeal of the engine.

you're so FWD negative on TMF... we all know RX-7s are godlike

[SpooledupRacing]

I HATE FWD... Always have and always will..

I'm not a huge fan of AWD either but it is a great setup.. but for me a real race car or a real sporty car should be RWD..

Your right I don't want the rotary engine to go away but it is like a special edition in order to get one you NEED to have an RX car IMO.. (or Cosmo/Repu)

I don't like the idea of putting one in every car it was not meant for that keep it to its self, thats the cool part about owning one

[kansei]

You can hate it all you want without being totally negative about it any time it comes up on here, as it does quite often since somewhere around 90% of the members (probably more) drive FWD cars. Just tread lightly, don't want to alienate most of your customers on here right?

I would love to put a rotary engine in my Protege (wouldn't need a turbo, RX-8 power levels in the lighter Protege would be awesome), but doing a RWD conversion as well would be hugely more costly and just not really worth it at all (to me). I value the car for the huge cargo capacity, some of that would be lost. If you've never driven a really sporty FWD car I guess I can understand hating on it. I hate most boring midsize FWD cars but FWD can be fun too :) A rotary engine would be icing on the cake