Suggestions: Spark Plug and Wires

[mzdalvr]

Just curious on what everyone uses for plugs and wires. I'm thinking of replacing my wires with NGK ones.

thoughts?

[pdhaudio83]

I still have been using stock wires- and mind you with 25psi of boost. I've run into absolutely no problems with them... HOWEVER... I got a pretty set of Nology HotWires I'll be installing sometime this spring. We'll see how those handle.

NGK wires will be fine, my dealer always used NGK wires to replace mine on my old Protege (1992).

[DemonIAm]

I went with the long reach plugs from NGK ( V-Power {ZFR5F-11} ). I kept the stock wires, as they were fine..

[kansei]

I still have been using stock wires- and mind you with 25psi of boost. I've run into absolutely no problems with them... HOWEVER... I got a pretty set of Nology HotWires I'll be installing sometime this spring. We'll see how those handle.

NGK wires will be fine, my dealer always used NGK wires to replace mine on my old Protege (1992).

Yes but how many miles are on your stock wires? At 80K miles my coils were bulging (dying).. wires had been replaced at like 40k haha.

I went with the long reach plugs from NGK ( V-Power {ZFR5F-11} ). I kept the stock wires, as they were fine..

Yeah the copper ZFR5F-11 works excellently. The NGK wires are basically stock replicas, but I think they're cheaper than stock? It's what I run, bought them from www.sparkplugs.com (owned by ngk at least a little I think)

[CulRidr]

^Plus one on the ZFR5F-11, and stock wires which ARE NGK, or "aftermarket" NGK - if they are cheaper - are all you need to keep the car running well. Anything else is honestly a waste of money.

[kansei]

well aside from replacing the oem coilpacks.. which are a ridiculous amount of money.

I know at one point napa sold them for $17.99 each and they were the OEM ones.. i.e. likely made by the same manufacturer.

[KrayzieFox]

Stock wires and coils, and NGK V-power platinum plugs.

[pdhaudio83]

I have 62k on original wires and coils Kansei :)

But yeah, anything NGK are good quality and don't cost too much.

[DemonIAm]

90K on my coils.... crossed fingers

[CrashKelly]

I've been thinking about new plugs...I have been running a step colder NGK plugs and been running fine, but if anyone can suggest some really high quality plugs for the MSP maybe I'll try something new

[kansei]

really high quality? some NGK ZFR7F-11 plugs would do great.. they're like $8 for a set of 4.

[CrashKelly]

really high quality? some NGK ZFR7F-11 plugs would do great.. they're like $8 for a set of 4.

werd that is what I am currently running...I think...They are a step colder than stock right?

[kansei]

yeah stock is 6 (on the MSP).

[CrashKelly]

yeah stock is 6 (on the MSP).

yeah I guess i will just stick with the same ones then, they havent been a problem ever.

[chico]

Hey guys, any suggestion for a 2002 Protege 2.0l?

"Long reach?"

[mzdalvr]

I just put in NGK ZFR5F-11 and they are awesome! These are long reach v-power NGK's.

[chico]

I have a hot weather all year long down here, plus i was having pinging issue, I used Shell gas and it seems no more.

[kansei]

I have a hot weather all year long down here, plus i was having pinging issue, I used Shell gas and it seems no more.

the ZFR5F-11 should work great

[chico]

the ZFR5F-11 should work great

Are they better than stock? Long reach? Will it help with bad gas issues (pinging)?

Maybe a colder plug? I really don't know about this very well >.<

[kansei]

You shouldn't have to change the heat range of your plugs at all, even a pretty heavily modified naturally aspirated Protege doesn't need colder plugs. They are the long reach plugs, and I honestly have no idea what affects that would have on bad gas. I avoid any even slightly untrustworthy gas place.

[SpooledupRacing]

if you are having ping problems I would run a higher octane.

the ZFR5F-11 plugs are great and should do your car just fine..

a new set of NGK or Karlyn wires would do great as well.

[kansei]

I haven't heard anything good about wires other than OEM/NGK. Plug wires have no performance potential at all on the Protege with it's distributorless ignition system.

[SpooledupRacing]

The Karlyn wires are a side by side wire in my book as the ngk's

Neither are "performance" both are GREAT quality STOCK REPLACMENT wires.. I have used both and will continue to use both..

[kansei]

I just know I've used "auto parts store brand" (I forget what they were labeled as, but the wires were branded Belden Cable, which is a very good cable company) and had tons of issues with water getting to the plugs due to poor boot design, and then after a few months a crack in the cable and it shorted out whenever it was even damp outside, causing destructive misfiring.

They looked just like the OEM and NGK wires too, dunno why the quality was so bad. They were also $125 vs $40 for NGK and about $40 for stock. I hate when I need parts in an emergency :P

If you're gonna go with Karlyn just don't bother with anything that claims to be a "performance wire"

Dave I'm guessing you can get Karlyn products.. how much for a ''5038" coil? We once had NAPA as a source for cheap coils ($17.88 vs hundreds for stock) but they jacked their prices up really high now.

[SpooledupRacing]

Yes I sell NGK and Karlyn...

Belden is JUNK.. we wont sell it

yes I sell the coils, they were in my tune up kit deal I did last month same coils with boots

60.00 each shipped

[MazdaTom]

HOWEVER... I got a pretty set of Nology HotWires I'll be installing sometime this spring. We'll see how those handle.

I think Nology's are over-hyped.

"CAPACITOR" EFFECT WIRES with grounded metal braiding over jacket
The most notable of exaggerated claims for ignition wires are made by Nology, a manufacturer of ignition wires promoted as "the only spark plug wires with built-in capacitor." Nology's "HotWires" (called "Plasma Leads" in the UK) consist of unsuppressed solid metal or spiral conductor ignition wires over which braided metal sleeves are partially fitted. The braided metal sleeves are grounded via straps formed from part of the braiding. Insulating covers are fitted over the braided metal sleeves. These wires are well constructed. For whatever reason, Nology specifies that non-resistor spark plugs need to be used with their "HotWires." In a demonstration, the use of resistor plugs with "HotWires" will nullify the visual effect of the brighter spark.

Ignition wires with grounded braided metal sleeves over the cable have come and gone all over the world for (at least) the last 30 years, and similar wires were used over 20 years ago by a few car makers to solve cross-firing problems on early fuel injected engines and RFI problems on fiberglass bodied cars — only to find other problems were created. The recent Circle Track Magazine (USA, May, 1996 issue) test showed Nology "HotWires" produced no additional horsepower (the test actually showed a 10 horsepower decrease when compared to stock carbon conductor wires).

The perceived effect a brighter spark, conducted by an ignition wire, encased or partially encased in a braided metal sleeve (shield) grounded to the engine, jumping across a huge free-air gap (which bears no relationship to the spark needed to fire the variable air/fuel mixture under pressure in a combustion chamber) is continually being re-discovered and cleverly demonstrated by marketers who convince themselves there's monetary value in such a bright spark, and all sorts of wild, completely un-provable claims are made for this phenomena.

Like many in the past, Nology cleverly demonstrates a brighter free-air spark containing useless flash-over created by the crude "capacitor" (effect) of this style of wire. In reality, the bright spark has no more useful energy to fire a variable compressed air/fuel mixture than the clean spark you would see in a similar demonstration using any good carbon conductor wire. What is happening in such a demonstration is the coil output is being unnecessarily boosted to additionally supply spark energy that is induced (and wasted) into the grounded braided metal sleeve around the ignition wire's jacket. To test the validity of this statement, ask the Nology demonstrator to disconnect the ground strap and observe just how much energy is sparking to ground.

Claims by Nology of their "HotWires" creating sparks that are "300 times more powerful," reaching temperatures of "100,000 to 150,000 degrees F" (more than enough to melt spark plug electrodes), spark durations of "4 billionths of a second" (spark duration is controlled by the ignition system itself) and currents of "1,000 amperes" magically evolving in "capacitors" allegedly "built-in" to the ignition wires are as ridiculous as the data and the depiction of sparks in photographs used in advertising material and the price asked for these wires! Most stock ignition primaries are regulated to 6 amperes and the most powerful race ignition to no more than 40 amperes at 12,000 RPM.

It is common knowledge amongst automotive electrical engineers that it is unwise to use ignition wires fitted with grounded braided metal sleeves fitted over ignition cable jackets on an automobile engine. This type of ignition wires forces its cable jackets to become an unsuitable dielectric for a crude capacitor (effect) between the conductor and the braided metal sleeves. While the wires function normally when first fitted, the cable jackets soon break down as a dielectric, and progressively more spark energy is induced from the conductors (though the cable jackets) into the grounded metal sleeves, causing the ignition coil to unnecessarily output more energy to fire both the spark plug gaps and the additional energy lost via the braided metal sleeves. Often this situation leads to ignition coil and control unit overload failures. It should be noted that it is dangerous to use this style of wires if not grounded to the engine with grounding straps, as the outside of the braided cables will be alive with thousands of volts wanting to ground-out to anything (or anybody) nearby.

Unless you are prepared to accept poorly suppressed ignition wires that fail sooner than any other type of ignition wires and stretch your ignition system to the limit, and have an engine with no electronic management system and/or exhaust emission controls, it's best not to be influenced by the exaggerated claims, and some vested-interest journalists', resellers' and installers' perception an engine has more power after Nology wires are fitted. Often, after replacing deteriorated wires, any new ignition wires make an engine run better.

http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm

[kansei]

Magnecors are overhyped too.. for our cars at least.

[SpooledupRacing]

Pat knows his nologys are overhyped but they are preaty

Magnecore are overhyped

there really is NO performance gain for wires.. the only thing u need to watch for is if u have alot of stereo eqip u want to watch for noice supression..

but honestly as far as the car goes.. NO.

[chico]

What if i use one step colder than stock? What's the worse thing may happen?

[808mp5]

What if i use one step colder than stock? What's the worse thing may happen?

Spark Plugs - Heat Ranges & Construction
First, let's look at the concept of heat range. A plug's heat range is its ability to transfer the excess heat from the insulator tip to the cylinder head. The speed of this transfer is commonly described by the term "hot plug" and "cold plug."

A "hot plug" means that the heat transfer is slow, causing the plug to operate at a higher temperature. A "cold plug" has a faster rate of heat transfer, thus it operates at a cooler temperature. In other words, a hot plug has a low heat range and a cold plug has a high heat range. That being said, it's easy to see how heat ranges can be confusing.

Plugs are available in different heat ranges to accommodate the operating conditions of different engines and driving conditions. A plug must operate hot enough to stay clean (i.e., not foul) and cold enough to prevent pre-ignition (premature ignition of the fuel-air mixture). If pre-ignition were not controlled, engine performance would drop and the plug would eventually destroy itself by overheating.

The heat range is determined, for the most part, by the insulator material, the length of the insulator tip and the alloy material of the center electrode. The amount of heat transfer is affected by the size and shape of the space between the insulator and plug shell and by the quality of insulator material. A positive contact between the insulator and shell must be provided.

Here's what to keep in mind when selecting the right heat range for your car's spark plugs. A plug's heat range should be lower than the pre-ignition zone and higher than the cold fouling zone. In this lower temperature area, residues from fuel and oil additives are no longer burnt away and may cause the plug to misfire. Generally, a colder plug is better suited for high speed highway traveling. A hotter plug is better for prolonged idling and city travel.

The construction of a spark plug can and does affect performance. Materials, shapes and assembly techniques are important to a plug's performance and life span. If any of these are varied, the operating characteristics are also varied. Critical parts of a spark plug and their purpose are detailed below:

copied from this site http://www.autohausaz.com/html/spark-plugs_spark-plug-wires.html

[SpooledupRacing]

on a turbo plug a colder plug is nice to have... on a non turbo normally a hot plug is better.

[808mp5]

OK... Hmmm... so many choices of spark plugs

B-DR17YC-1 HALO spark plugs
NGK plugs
..... etc... etc...

what to get?

[chico]

Spark Plugs - Heat Ranges & Construction
First, let's look at the concept of heat range. A plug's heat range is its ability to transfer the excess heat from the insulator tip to the cylinder head. The speed of this transfer is commonly described by the term "hot plug" and "cold plug."

A "hot plug" means that the heat transfer is slow, causing the plug to operate at a higher temperature. A "cold plug" has a faster rate of heat transfer, thus it operates at a cooler temperature. In other words, a hot plug has a low heat range and a cold plug has a high heat range. That being said, it's easy to see how heat ranges can be confusing.

Plugs are available in different heat ranges to accommodate the operating conditions of different engines and driving conditions. A plug must operate hot enough to stay clean (i.e., not foul) and cold enough to prevent pre-ignition (premature ignition of the fuel-air mixture). If pre-ignition were not controlled, engine performance would drop and the plug would eventually destroy itself by overheating.

The heat range is determined, for the most part, by the insulator material, the length of the insulator tip and the alloy material of the center electrode. The amount of heat transfer is affected by the size and shape of the space between the insulator and plug shell and by the quality of insulator material. A positive contact between the insulator and shell must be provided.

Here's what to keep in mind when selecting the right heat range for your car's spark plugs. A plug's heat range should be lower than the pre-ignition zone and higher than the cold fouling zone. In this lower temperature area, residues from fuel and oil additives are no longer burnt away and may cause the plug to misfire. Generally, a colder plug is better suited for high speed highway traveling. A hotter plug is better for prolonged idling and city travel.

The construction of a spark plug can and does affect performance. Materials, shapes and assembly techniques are important to a plug's performance and life span. If any of these are varied, the operating characteristics are also varied. Critical parts of a spark plug and their purpose are detailed below:

copied from this site http://www.autohausaz.com/html/spark-plugs_spark-plug-wires.html


Thank You very much!

[kansei]

OK... Hmmm... so many choices of spark plugs

B-DR17YC-1 HALO spark plugs
NGK plugs
..... etc... etc...

what to get?

Well this goes for both you and Chico..

NGK ZFR5F-11

or if you want stock, NGK BKR5E-11 (99% sure that's the model number but I'm tired so may be wrong)

When my car was at the peak of it's naturally aspirated mods (polished intake manifold w/ vtcs removed, CAI, FS-ZE intake cam, underdrive pulley, long tube 4-1 header, catted midpipe, catback exhaust, MP3 ECU) I tried using the ZFR6F-11 and it was a noticeable performance loss and the plugs got gunked up pretty quickly. Stick to the 5 heat range, and whatever you do don't touch Bosche plugs!

Oh and at least in the states the ZFR5F-11 is under $10 for all 4 :)

[808mp5]

Awesome.... Now im having trouble finding a replacement for my nology wires.

Being that the nology wires required me to move the coil pack to the front of the motor. I figures the 1.8L wires would do the trick. NOPE> the 1.8L wires do not fit in the 2.0L coil packs plus the number one cylinder wire was too short. So i figures i'll give the MSD do-it-yourselft kit a try. To my dismay upon inspection they don't fit in the 2.0L coil packs either.

Hmm... I got an idea. I'll look for the stock wires and see if i can take the connectors off and put them on the MSD wires.

Anyone got any idea? Any other options? Anything except going back to putting the coilpacks back to the stock postion cuz i think i might be missing a few parts for that. Also not going to do the downgrade from 2.0L >>> 1.8L coil pack conversion.

[kansei]

the 1.8 coil pack conversion isn't a downgrade*.. it's just a different (cheaper) alternative.



*until there is data to show it

[chico]

Well this goes for both you and Chico..

NGK ZFR5F-11

or if you want stock, NGK BKR5E-11 (99% sure that's the model number but I'm tired so may be wrong)

When my car was at the peak of it's naturally aspirated mods (polished intake manifold w/ vtcs removed, CAI, FS-ZE intake cam, underdrive pulley, long tube 4-1 header, catted midpipe, catback exhaust, MP3 ECU) I tried using the ZFR6F-11 and it was a noticeable performance loss and the plugs got gunked up pretty quickly. Stick to the 5 heat range, and whatever you do don't touch Bosche plugs!

Oh and at least in the states the ZFR5F-11 is under $10 for all 4 :)

OKAY. I'll just go for stock plugs. Since I use regular gas, and maybe would have to get gas in a random gas station it will help with detonation vs the long reach ones.

GRACIAS!

[Z]

i ended up getting the ZFR5F-11. $16 for all 4 in the great white north. :smile-l:

[808mp5]

im outta options for wires... guess im going to gut the connectors off the nologys and attach them to the DIY MSDs

[chico]

I went for NGK BKR5E-11. They had the ngks Laser ones. Pricey. There are so many options, platinum, irridium, lasers, double platinum....

[SpooledupRacing]

I say stick with the oem style NGK plugs.. and a good set of either NGK/Mazda/Karlyn wires..

[pauljt]

I've been thinking about new plugs...I have been running a step colder NGK plugs and been running fine, but if anyone can suggest some really high quality plugs for the MSP maybe I'll try something new
I recommend a Iridium plug by NGK. I have even run these on my P5 no problems ever. I typically drive 50000 km a year so I can tell you they are reliable.

[Red5_02]

I recommend a Iridium plug by NGK. I have even run these on my P5 no problems ever. I typically drive 50000 km a year so I can tell you they are reliable.

Waste of money

[kansei]

on an MSP they'll probably foul out before they actually wear down.

[Red5_02]

I went 95,000 miles on the stockers. No shit. Can't tell me that iridiums or platinum or eisteinium or whatever the fuck they make plugs out of these days are actually worth the 10 dollars you pay for something to spark.

[kansei]

lol I bet your stockers at 95k miles looked like CRAP though. Even if they didn't, they'd be mega worn out. I replace my spark plugs a couple times each year though, usually in the spring then again in early fall :P. To be fair, I did well over 50000km on my car last year but did change them 3 or 4 times during that.. they were never even slightly worn out looking, I had to change for other reasons. they're under $9 tax in for the full set so why not? They're so painfully easy to change in these cars

btw Welcome to TMF pauljt!

[Red5_02]

lol I bet your stockers at 95k miles looked like CRAP though. Even if they didn't, they'd be mega worn out. I replace my spark plugs a couple times each year though, usually in the spring then again in early fall :P. To be fair, I did well over 50000km on my car last year but did change them 3 or 4 times during that.. they were never even slightly worn out looking, I had to change for other reasons. they're under $9 tax in for the full set so why not? They're so painfully easy to change in these cars

btw Welcome to TMF pauljt!

Not as much as you think. Number 4 was the only bad one.

[CrashKelly]

hey fellas, I am going to change my plugs soon. Anyone heard anything about those E3 plugs? I think they are called E3 diamond fire. They did a little plug (haha that was a pun) on horsepower tv along with a dyno test of their efficiency. I am curious to try them out, but they are expensive. Their is a chart that you can look at that "converts" the plug you are using now to what type you should use for them.

For the MSP it was an E3.56 (If you were using the stock heat range in an NGK - ZFR6F11) and E3.64 (If you went a step colder). I think I am going to pick up a set and see how they work out.

[Red5_02]

hey fellas, I am going to change my plugs soon. Anyone heard anything about those E3 plugs? I think they are called E3 diamond fire. They did a little plug (haha that was a pun) on horsepower tv along with a dyno test of their efficiency. I am curious to try them out, but they are expensive. Their is a chart that you can look at that "converts" the plug you are using now to what type you should use for them.

For the MSP it was an E3.56 (If you were using the stock heat range in an NGK - ZFR6F11) and E3.64 (If you went a step colder). I think I am going to pick up a set and see how they work out.

Oh you'll regret that. We had a lot of people put those in their cars when they were first release at Advance Auto. Can't tell you how many people came back in with misfire codes or had idle issues. Fix? NGK V-power. Worked every time. Can't tell me those things weren't crap

[CrashKelly]

Oh you'll regret that. We had a lot of people put those in their cars when they were first release at Advance Auto. Can't tell you how many people came back in with misfire codes or had idle issues. Fix? NGK V-power. Worked every time. Can't tell me those things weren't crap

Really? I did end up getting a set of the E3's. I went with the step colder versions for the MSP and my first impressions are that I really like them. The car seemed to run a little better and more smoothly. However, I havent changed my plugs in a long time. The original ones that I pulled out were worn quite a bit but there were no signs of detonation or any other signs of the engine running poorly.

Maybe because I havent changed them in so long anything was better than nothing and that is why I feel the improvement. Honestly I am really happy with them so far (other than the price of 6 dollars per plug). I will keep everyone posted if I run into any troubles with them.

[kansei]

that's how it is for most people. If your plugs are overdue, any plugs in the world will feel nice (even bosche.. until something explodes)

[CrashKelly]

that's how it is for most people. If your plugs are overdue, any plugs in the world will feel nice (even bosche.. until something explodes)

ha yeah i guess so. It was probably like 50,000 miles since I had last changed them. They actually looked completely fine other than the fact that they just looked older. They were really clean. But so far so good with the E3's. I havent had any problems yet and the car is running well. I put a lot of miles on driving to work. Fortunately I just got a job closer to where I am that is 32,000 dollars a year more than what I make now so I think I am going to buy another car or bike.