Rosshole's 6i stereo thread

[Rosshole]

I am going to be upgrading my stereo this coming spring (warmer weather) and I am looking for some advice.

These are my goals:

1. Keep cost down
2. Maintain stock head unit + steering controls
3. New interiors + 1 subwoofer
4. All speakers amplified
5. I-pod compatible

My initial thoughs are finding a decent (quality and price) 6 channel amp that is about 50 - 70 x 4 watts rms and bridging at least 200 watts rms out of the 5 + 6 channel for the sub.

If anyone has any thoughts or know more about stereo stuff than me (I know very little) Please chime in.

One problem I know that I will have right away is wiring, I have never wired up an amp without preamp outs on the HU, what do I need? do I sacrifice tons of sound quality?

discuss

[liquid_ag]

does the auxmod work for the mazda 6? that would be a very easy way to integrate the ipod

[Rosshole]

I was thinking about the axxess unit, because it displays text on the datacenter.

that should be around $150

[Rosshole]

this is the amp that caught my attention earlier, and it's ~$240 on eBay

JBL Grand Touring Series (http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=120&i=109GTO7556&c=3&tp=115)

I don't know much about JBL, does anyone here?

[liquid_ag]

i dunno, but thats pretty

[Rosshole]

i dunno, but thats pretty
and the price is right!

I suppose that I should clarify, I am not a high end audio person, I just want a little clearer and louder sound.

[kansei]

I was thinking about the axxess unit, because it displays text on the datacenter.

that should be around $150


yeah I saw that unit in a thread on a 6 forum (browsing for cars for sale) and it looked very nice.

[Rosshole]

Track display ftw!

For interiors i am thinking infinity reference, Ya know, to keep quality up and cost down.

[SATimko]

I've used both Infinity Reference and Kappas in my Civic. For lower power apps, the References sound great.

JBL amps are factory underrated. I have a friend that runs nothing but JBL amps. Sound rather good, and get LOUD. He's using two JBL 1200.1 amps to run his Alpine Type R 15's.

[liquid_ag]

i had the kappas in the 1g, i loved them

[SATimko]

I love the Kappas in the Civic. I just don't have a head unit in it. All the speakers and amp are there.

[liquid_ag]

just sculpture?

[SATimko]

The P5 stole the head unit, and I don't drive the Civic enough right now to justify running out and buying a new one for the P5.

[Rosshole]

I am going to have to price shop the Kappa's eBay style, but I used to have references in my pontiac (years ago).

oh well, I guess that I should make a for sale thread and get rid of my head unit.

[Rosshole]

how should this be wired in as to keep good sound quality??

line converters?

or line level speaker inputs into the amp?

[liquid_ag]

i had circuit city install everything on the 1g. and got the extended warranty, that way when i blew a speaker, they replaced it

[kansei]

Line level converters are pretty high quality. I don't know if it has been done with the 6 but I know on the Protege people found where on the mainboard in the stock stereo to wire to get line output from it.

You might want to contact Chuyler1 from some other forum, I know he's into the audio stuff and has a mazdaspeed6

[SATimko]

how should this be wired in as to keep good sound quality??

line converters?

or line level speaker inputs into the amp?

Either way could cause potential noise in the signal, but i would go with line converters. Sometimes easier to just run the RCA wires to the amp vs all those speaker wires.

[Rosshole]

Either way could cause potential noise in the signal, but i would go with line converters. Sometimes easier to just run the RCA wires to the amp vs all those speaker wires.

I agree, that would be a big mess of wires running to the trunk, or I may consider having circuit city install it for me.

[Rosshole]

http://www.jbl.com/car/products/images/products_small/GTO755_6II.jpg

[Rosshole]

Circuit city wants $90 + parts (connectors, wiring, RCA's, line converters, etc.)

I will do it myself.

[SATimko]

That's lame. As long as you have patience you can do a much nicer job than them anyway.

[Rosshole]

That's lame. As long as you have patience you can do a much nicer job than them anyway.

yeah, but I will need to find a warm place to do it, but I may not do it until spring anyways. (I am still saving for my new bike, almost $1000 already in the piggy bank!!)

[Rosshole]

so, who can suggest a reasonably priced 12 inch sub that can handle at least 300 watts RMS?

[SATimko]

Are you looking for sound quality, or more SPL? I'm partial to JL Audio subs myself, but I started getting into Memphis before I quit.

[Rosshole]

SQ definately. but remember, cost is important too, I am not trying to win awards or have the neatest install.

[SATimko]

For the money, the Memphis Power Reference series isn't bad at all. My sister has two of them in her Jeep and I felt it had good sound.

[Rosshole]

that Memphis can only handle 250 RMS... I think that I need 300 for that amp, (I wouldn't want to chance it)

[SATimko]

The M1 is a nice sub. I ran that for almost a year before the ex made me sell it. I was putting somewhere around 500rms to it with no issues. Rated for less.

[Rosshole]

JL audio has 13.5" subs, does anyone know about these?

silly or worth investigating?

[Rosshole]

The M1 is a nice sub. I ran that for almost a year before the ex made me sell it. I was putting somewhere around 500rms to it with no issues. Rated for less.

I will definately keep this in mind!!!



Also, I have always had two 12's for as long as I can remember, so I worry that I am going to lose a lot by going to one sub, (but for space saving reasons, I am definately going to one sub.)

I kind of like this guy too

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=520&i=158XSL124&c=3&tp=111

[SATimko]

JL audio has 13.5" subs, does anyone know about these?

silly or worth investigating?

Anything JL Audio is expensive as balls. But worth it IMO. 13.5W6 sounds nice.

[SATimko]

Go ported and you won't notice as much of a loss. When I was running that M1, it was in a 2.5 cubic foot box, ported, 500w rms and it was louder than I would ever need.

[SATimko]

A few friends of mine ran Sony subs. I was never a huge fan of them. I didn't like the sound. IMO, and speaking only from my own experience, this would suit you better.

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?showAll=N&g=520&i=1081250W&c=3&tp=111

[liquid_ag]

i had mtx and absolutely adored them

[SATimko]

I had problems with my MTX's. I had the Thunder 8000's back in the day. Ran them off of the recommended Thunder 500d amp, and kept blowing the subs. First I'd have issues ripping the tinsel leads, then I just fried them. Ever since I've never touched another MTX.

[liquid_ag]

see, i had kenwood subs, and they would explode. the mtx were slick

[SATimko]

I don't like Kenwood for the most part at all.

[liquid_ag]

me either, not after that, but they sure were pretty

[Rosshole]

that infinity that you posted looks good, I may just end up with all infinity speakers in the car!!

[Rosshole]

My last system was 2-12" sonys, I thought that they sounded great, but I am willing to go infinity!!

[kansei]

looks good? shouldn't it sound good? I'd just go to every real car audio shop you can find (i.e. not best buy, circuit city, et al) and just listen to everything

[Rosshole]

thanks captain obvious, I meant that that spec's looked good

[Rosshole]

don't worry, I have all of winter to listen to lots of speakers.

[SATimko]

A friend of mine ran one of those Infinity References at around 750w rms and it didn't destroy itself. On 300 watts, and powered by my JL Audio 300/2, it sounded amazingly clean for a lower price sub. I've always been impressed by Infinity's sound quality.

[Rosshole]

well, it is research time, now to find a store that carries Infinity and or JL Audio.

[SATimko]

JL Audio is normally carried by private stores, not chain retailers.
Infinity can be found at Circuit City most commonly.

[Rosshole]

Yeah, there is a local store that I should be able to find the stuff at, maybe I will do that tonight??

[SATimko]

Let me know how that goes. I like the sound of the JL W3v2s. Just a thought. They're expensive tho.

[Rosshole]

oh well, nothing like over-researching!! (I still need to order the i-Pod thingy)

[firestoned]

I have 2 12W6V2's in a custom box that was in my car, with a JL500.1 mono amp, and that was crazy insane!! I had previously had only 1 W6, and it just wasnt quite enough. 2 is perfect, and the box fits in the mazda6 great. FYI the setup is for sale on Craigslist now.....HINT HINT

[Rosshole]

haha, I don't have money for this project until spring, (I am saving for some other things)

[SATimko]

12W6V2s are awesome. I wanted to go with those back when I was huge into this. Go figure, now that I graduated college, got a job and make more than minimum wage, I'm not really worried about going big anymore. Hahaha.

[Rosshole]

funny how that works, isnt it?

[Rosshole]

well, the stereo is definatley on hold because of the whole condo purchase thingy.

[SATimko]

Nice of you to update us.

Sounds like a bit of post whoring to me... ;)

[kansei]

Nice of you to update us.

Sounds like a bit of post whoring to me... ;)

says someone with the second highest post count on this forum o_O

[SATimko]

Gotta do what you gotta do...

[Rosshole]

Nice of you to update us.

Sounds like a bit of post whoring to me... ;)

eat me.

[SATimko]

Hahahaha.

I'm not the one that called you at 430 am...I can say whatever I want. 'Twas pretty funny though. I was wide awake for some aweful reason...

[Rosshole]

I was drunk as hell.

[SATimko]

Hahahaha, I didn't mind at all.

[Rosshole]

it was funny as shit.

[SATimko]

Agreed. Especially the reason why you called in the first place. I still laugh about that any time I think about going to the site.

[Rosshole]

Lmao... awesomeness.

[Z]

i saw a avic D3 for 699 here, which is the lowest i've ever seen it (beats the 899 that it was a few months ago). at that price...gogogo!

[Rosshole]

yeah, I need to buy a big ass fishy tank first.

[SATimko]

Yeah...that drop in price on the AVIC-D3 pissed me off. I paid 999 not a month before they dropped in price.

[Rosshole]

there is one born every minute.

[Fourthmeal]

When it comes to cheap and awesome setups, I'm GOOD at it.

I need a budget, and the type of music you listen to, as well as what equipment (if any) you have now, and I can rig something up quick.

[Rosshole]

When it comes to cheap and awesome setups, I'm GOOD at it.

I need a budget, and the type of music you listen to, as well as what equipment (if any) you have now, and I can rig something up quick.

Sounds tempting, I will PM you in the future once I can make this happen financially.

Thanks!

[Fourthmeal]

Yeah, no problem. If you weren't so damn far away from me here in Vegas, I'd suggest you to drop by and see if any of my equipment suits you, then work it out. All sorts of options...

Generally speaking, I can devise a complete system anywhere between $500 and $800, complete w/ everything but your own labor, and yet still totally rock the car. A lot of people forget to budget wire, wood, etc. when they figure things out, but my numbers include EVERYTHING. When you tabulate it like that, it isn't so bad!

Granted, with more money means you can do more, get more space efficient gear, have more of your desires fulfilled (like the false floor concept), but if money is the prime motivator, you can still build greatness. You just have to be...creative!

[Rosshole]

well, the speaker's, amp, wiring, and I-pod thingy that I had priced out came out to about $500, what would you do different? (keep in mind, I would like to keep the stock HU.

[Fourthmeal]

Well the stock HU doesn't put out flat sound, so you need to correct that first. The cheapest, best way to do that is to use the MTX RE-Q5 or older model RE-Q, about $110 at sonicelectronix. Next, we need to do sound deadening. I use RAAMmat and Ensolite. For budget, I figure 1/2 the roll of RAAMmat towards this car. This is cheating, but you can sell the other 1/2 to a friend EASILY, they'll be so shocked it costs 1/4 as much as Dynamat, and produces the same results. I'll budget one roll ($118.96), 3 yards Ensolite ($35.88) and at least one can of adhesive ($7.66), which comes to a total of $162.50. 1/2 the roll to sell, leaves you with a total of $103.02. Next, we could go with CDT Audio components, $99 shipped. I think at the price they are selling at, you can't beat them. The only way to get close is to make your own components, but you'd better be good at passive crossover construction if you go that route! Next, we need an amp. Let's go for now with the MTX Terminator 4ch N-class amp, $149.99. I could go cheaper, but for now that's an excellent mid-range amp. For a sub, let's go cheap for now, I'm picking out the Scosche EFX 10" sub, for $36 you can't beat it. Lastly, you need a 4channel amp kit, so I'll go with Knukonceptz.com, and use the KLM kit for $26.99, which includes your power, ground, and RCA wiring. now you need 4 conductor speaker wire, which you can get almost anywhere. You want installation-grade, 4 conductor, jacketed, and about 50 feet. I'd get it anywhere for under $25. Last thing is to make your own box, or buy one, or fiberglass, etc. This can get expensive, but you can always keep it cheap by going with sonicelectronix's $20 10" hatchback box. I'll leave this one up to you, because custom is as custom does.

Unless my math is wrong, you should be at $550 + some shipping. DONE! And let me tell you, this system should ROCK. If you give it about $100 more, you can really tune in to a more sleek setup with a slim sub, and perhaps a different amp, though I think you'd be happy with the MTX.

At $750 or so, things change drastically, as well as $1000. At $1000, you get to go to a full digital processor, allowing ACTIVE speaker control, a major step up.

[Rosshole]

geez.... with this setup, how are the four channels powering 5 speakers?

I am confused, my install abilities are a little limited (i didn't think so, but they are)

[SATimko]

I didn't know that N-class amps are getting use in car audio? I studied them a little in my advanced analog circuit class in college. Awesome!

[Fourthmeal]

geez.... with this setup, how are the four channels powering 5 speakers?

I am confused, my install abilities are a little limited (i didn't think so, but they are)

We leave the rears untouched, powered stock to stock. You don't need them.

So, 4 channels power 3.

[Fourthmeal]

I didn't know that N-class amps are getting use in car audio? I studied them a little in my advanced analog circuit class in college. Awesome!

ICEpower amps, or Bang and Olufsen's proprietary technology of class N power, has been around for a while. I have used both the PDX Alpine as well as the Pioneer PRS models, both are wonders of technology. Power, sound quality, light weight, durability, and low power draw...all nice things to have.

[Rosshole]

We leave the rears untouched, powered stock to stock. You don't need them.

So, 4 channels power 3.

ahhh, that makes more sense.

[SATimko]

ICEpower amps, or Bang and Olufsen's proprietary technology of class N power, has been around for a while. I have used both the PDX Alpine as well as the Pioneer PRS models, both are wonders of technology. Power, sound quality, light weight, durability, and low power draw...all nice things to have.

Yeah, I've read about the designs from a component stand point, but not an application stand point so much. Awesome.

Off topic. Someone told me they were running a Class-D amp on their highs. I had to pwn them by explaining how they were full of shit.

[Fourthmeal]

But you can.

A D class simply means a type of switching, which if you set it high enough you can use D class for all-range. The type T amp did this.

[SATimko]

You can yes, but the pusle width modulation gets to be dirty at higher frequencies IF you can find a FET or BJT that's fast enough to keep up with the switching. IIRC, the PWM operates on a frequency roughly 20x the frequency being reproduced. FETs and BJTs were only good up to about 4000 Hz, switching speeds. I could be all wrong though. It's been about two years since I worked with alot of this.

[Fourthmeal]

no, you're right. 100% right. The switching has to be FAST. But most can't hang with it. I'm not an expert in amp topology, but I know what sounds good... My favorites, in order, are Tube, Class A, ICEpower, T, A/B, and D.

[SATimko]

I love tube for every application. I collect vintage Fender guitar amps. I only have 3, but they're all tube and all old.

[Fourthmeal]

I love tube for every application. I collect vintage Fender guitar amps. I only have 3, but they're all tube and all old.

I used to be against tubes, but for all the wrong reasons. Same way I was against vinyl. Then, about 10 years ago, I got into electronic and house-style music. To say the least, they NEED the warmth and comfort of the tube sound.

My first taste of tubes in a car was indeed the Planet Audio amps I have. These are hybrid pre-amp tubes, with Zed-built stages and an excellent topology. I love, love, love them. They come with Sovtek 12A7U+ if I remember the tube world correctly. What is so cool is that the tubes can be removed, and you can experience the amp without any modulation from them, or you can change tubes and see which one sounds best to you. It is a subtle but real difference with them out, and with them in. I hear it most when I play aggressive electronic music, it takes the edge off and makes the music much easier to play loudly and jam, with no impact on fatigue.

[SATimko]

I want a tube car amp. Sovtek makes some nice tubes. The 12AU7's are nice for that application. Not too awefully expensive either for a pre-amp tube.

[Fourthmeal]

I want a tube car amp. Sovtek makes some nice tubes. The 12AU7's are nice for that application. Not too awefully expensive either for a pre-amp tube.

See if you can hunt down a Planet Audio HVT Amp.

http://cgi.ebay.com/O-S-Zed-Audio-Planet-Audio-HVT752-Tuber-Excellen-SQ_W0QQitemZ250231046226QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item25 0231046226

You'll have to keep your ear to the ground, so to speak.

[Rosshole]

I am resurecting this project (as long as I can get it past the wife...) with fourthmeal's recommendations. If I wouldn't have just bought new skis, this would be an easier sell for her, but oh well.

I did some research on the products that Fourthmeal suggested and it hit me like a ton of birck that this is really the a awesome way to do this.


Thanks man...

[Fourthmeal]

A lot of new products and solutions have presented themselves lately, ross. If you like, we can re-evaluate the whole thing, with these new products. Plus, I've found some KILLER websites with good deals everywhere.

I'm virtually lost as to where you are in your system plans, so revive me.

And, since I just now noticed I haven't presented it here before, fill this out for me (from my other thread):


---

I need to know your car, your max budget, your needs for space, and your musical listening preferences.

For car - I need the year, make, model, and trim that it comes with. If you already know what speakers it fits stock, that helps.

For budget - keep in mind a good system starts with a "big picture" point of view. Therefore, all systems will need various ancillaries that can't be avoided (deadening, wiring, etc.), so a COMPLETE from the ground up system sometimes runs higher then you might see advertisements for in your local paper. I can build something worthwhile as low as ~$550 or so, depending on the car. Keep in mind, there are significant advantages to raising your budget. More power, more clarity, better efficiency, less wasted space, more features, etc. all come into play. And with all things, you MUST PAY TO PLAY. Equipment from systems will probably outlast the car and might go into your next car or two, so keep in mind that it is an investment not just throw-away money.

Your needs for space - I value, above all else in systems I build, usable space left over. I think even the most powerful and showy system still deserves to be livable in a daily driver. If you are building a show car, my thread isn't for you, this is all about stealthy and hidden daily driver solutions, where possible.

Your musical preference - we all listen to different music and at differing volumes. A while back, I composed a list of "this or that" and a sliding spectrum between the polar opposites, and I'd like you to use it to help me figure out what you expect. Here's the list:

Laid Back - 1 2 3 4 5 - In your face

Detailed/Intricate - 1 2 3 4 5 - Smooth and blending/ambient

Loud - 1 2 3 4 5 - Subdued

Concert/Live sound - 1 2 3 4 5 - DJ/Premixed Sound (meaning, do you prefer your music live and natural, or more pre-recorded and boosted in some areas to accentuate the music?)

For the dollar, whatever that number might be:
Power/volume 1 2 3 4 5 Clarity/Detail


Next, tell me your favorite genres of music to go along with these scales.

Lastly, do you care about rear passengers and their sound? Yes/No

One more thing...If you have ANY audio gear now that you'd consider using, list it.

I've found with these essentials understood, I can usually provide some suggestions that will impress as a total package. GO!


---

[Rosshole]

2005 Mazda6 "sport"

The car does NOT have the bose stereo, and is all stock.

My budget has changed, I think that under $1000 after I am done will be good. The problem is, this will not be all done at once (can't get the wife to sign off on that one) so i want to do it in stages. Like deadening and door speakers first etc...

I do want to retain as much space as possible and still be able to get to the spare tire and all of that (I am cool with getting creative and building some cool custom stuff)

Music preferences are varied with fovarite artists being 311, Sublime, Lagwagon, Incubus, Atmosphere, Tool, 30 Seconds to Mars etc...

Laid Back - 1 2 3 4 5 - In your face

Detailed/Intricate - 1 2 3 4 5 - Smooth and blending/ambient

Loud - 1 2 3 4 5 - Subdued

Concert/Live sound - 1 2 3 4 5 - DJ/Premixed Sound (meaning, do you prefer your music live and natural, or more pre-recorded and boosted in some areas to accentuate the music?)

For the dollar, whatever that number might be:
Power/volume 1 2 3 4 5 Clarity/Detail

I would prefer it to sound ok in the back seat, but not totally important.

The only Auid gear that I have is tons of wiring from past stereos, and a Sony Xplod XM2200 200 x 2 amp.

Like i said, this will be a slow project so if you could adjust your advise to a staged install.

thanks man.

[Fourthmeal]

2005 Mazda6 "sport"

The car does NOT have the bose stereo, and is all stock.

My budget has changed, I think that under $1000 after I am done will be good. The problem is, this will not be all done at once (can't get the wife to sign off on that one) so i want to do it in stages. Like deadening and door speakers first etc...

I do want to retain as much space as possible and still be able to get to the spare tire and all of that (I am cool with getting creative and building some cool custom stuff)

Music preferences are varied with fovarite artists being 311, Sublime, Lagwagon, Incubus, Atmosphere, Tool, 30 Seconds to Mars etc...

Laid Back - 1 2 3 4 5 - In your face

Detailed/Intricate - 1 [2/] 3 4 5 - Smooth and blending/ambient

Loud - 1 [2/] 3 4 5 - Subdued

Concert/Live sound - 1 2 [3/] 4 5 - DJ/Premixed Sound (meaning, do you prefer your music live and natural, or more pre-recorded and boosted in some areas to accentuate the music?)

For the dollar, whatever that number might be:
Power/volume 1 2 3 [4/] 5 Clarity/Detail

I would prefer it to sound ok in the back seat, but not totally important.

The only Auid gear that I have is tons of wiring from past stereos, and a Sony Xplod XM2200 200 x 2 amp.

Like i said, this will be a slow project so if you could adjust your advise to a staged install.

thanks man.

Excellent! I think this will be a piece of cake.

First, order a roll of RAAMmat deadener, and 3-4 yards of Ensolite, and three cans of spray adhesive from Rick at www.raamaudio.com. should cost ~$175. Alternately, you could go slightly cheaper by ordering ~50 square feet of eBay product, some of which are pretty good, but it is up to you. IMO, Rick deserves the business and treats his customers right. Shipping is dead-cost, not inflated like most companies, so the overall real cost is much lower than some. Also, order a roller from someplace, like online or on dynamat's website.

Second, do you want to keep the stock head unit, or replace it?

[Rosshole]

Excellent! I think this will be a piece of cake.

First, order a roll of RAAMmat deadener, and 3-4 yards of Ensolite, and three cans of spray adhesive from Rick at www.raamaudio.com. should cost ~$175. Alternately, you could go slightly cheaper by ordering ~50 square feet of eBay product, some of which are pretty good, but it is up to you. IMO, Rick deserves the business and treats his customers right. Shipping is dead-cost, not inflated like most companies, so the overall real cost is much lower than some. Also, order a roller from someplace, like online or on dynamat's website.

Second, do you want to keep the stock head unit, or replace it?

I want to keep the stock HU.

[Fourthmeal]

I want to keep the stock HU.

OK. Well, your first stage is to fully deaden and wire up the car. Do you want to go forward with the RAAMmat from Rick, or do you want me to find a deal on eBay?

While on the question of wiring, you'll need 2-3 pairs of RCA's, 4 gauge power wire, main fuse, possibly a fused distribution block and ground block, either two pairs of 14-16 gauge speaker wire or a single four conductor wire per door. Do you have all that in wiring?

[Rosshole]

I will probably go with the RAAMmat, (not instantly though, I need to squirrel away funds first)

Wiring I would need some suggestions on (maybe a kit that has everything needed)

I have a lot of Misc. stuff (like 4 ga grounding wires and such... but I have one nice set of RCA's that I will definitely reuse)

[Rosshole]

well, I will get a hold of the deadening material and new speaker wire for the whole car first.

Question, will I notice a sound difference from just deadening and replacing the wires?

also, I should probably run all of the wiring necessary to finish the job so that I am only tearing everything apart once, right?

What will I need to install the sound processor?? wires? splicing? unit location? amp location?

[Fourthmeal]

I will probably go with the RAAMmat, (not instantly though, I need to squirrel away funds first)

Wiring I would need some suggestions on (maybe a kit that has everything needed)

I have a lot of Misc. stuff (like 4 ga grounding wires and such... but I have one nice set of RCA's that I will definitely reuse)


With wiring, I typically use Knukonceptz 4 gauge wiring kits, the ones that include the RCA's and all the rest. Typically they are the best wire for the money, and are around ~$60. If you are installing only one amp, then you don't need to do much else. If you are going with two or more amps, you need to run a distribution block/ground block.. I have found excellent sources for these.

The only other part is running 4 conductors to each door, if you are installing a woofer/tweeter setup in each door. This can get tough, because the wiring must be small. There is a Molex connector in each door, and in order to make this work, you must drill through the connector, or create an entirely new hole above or below this point, with grommets and protective loom. No doubt this is the most daunting task of the entire system install. You may want to pull these connectors out and investigate them beforehand, to understand how it will work. At any rate, the wire I chose to use was 4 conductor, 16 gauge in-wall rated wire. This stuff has a tough, thin sheath over the 4 conductors, to protect them. This type of wire is hard to find on a typical website, so sometimes it is best to shop around your local home theater shops, and ask to see their installation wire. Alternately, you can use two pairs of quality 16 gauge wires, but this might take more room (which you don't have.) It depends.

[Fourthmeal]

well, I will get a hold of the deadening material and new speaker wire for the whole car first.

Question, will I notice a sound difference from just deadening and replacing the wires?

also, I should probably run all of the wiring necessary to finish the job so that I am only tearing everything apart once, right?

What will I need to install the sound processor?? wires? splicing? unit location? amp location?

The sound deadening will give you a huge difference. Wiring won't be actually used until you start installing equipment. For now, the goal is to simply lay the groundwork of wiring so you don't have to dig up your interior twice. It will lay dormant until you are up and running with gear. Sound deadening will instantly change the car's sound and the driving feel (road noise will be nearly gone.)


A sound processor is something we'll have to cover in great detail. There are many options, and each one has its advantages/disadvantages.

[Rosshole]

The sound deadening will give you a huge difference. Wiring won't be actually used until you start installing equipment. For now, the goal is to simply lay the groundwork of wiring so you don't have to dig up your interior twice. It will lay dormant until you are up and running with gear. Sound deadening will instantly change the car's sound and the driving feel (road noise will be nearly gone.)


A sound processor is something we'll have to cover in great detail. There are many options, and each one has its advantages/disadvantages.

Ok, so where should I go with the deadening??

Obviously all the doors (because of the speakers)

How much of the trunk?

Should I do the entire floor?

Where else?

[Fourthmeal]

Just some research here on the issue of wiring, distribution blocks, etc. for you and those following.

For a two-amp system, this is the best block I've found for the money:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_14760_Tsunami+V10PG2-MANL.html

http://images.sonicelectronix.com/images/112801/main/met-v10pg2manl.jpg
It has either 0 or 4 gauge input, with two 4 or 8 gauge outputs, fused. It also has an integrated ground block with the same options. IMO, you can't beat it at ~$15. I've used it once and will continue to until they run out of them.

For most systems, it makes sense to replace the battery terminals with ones that are stronger, and more versatile. I've found that these are the best for the buck, and have used them countless times.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_11825_StreetWires+BT1P.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_11826_StreetWires+BT1N.html
http://images.sonicelectronix.com/images//33849/main/str-bt1p.jpg

These are $5.99 each, and provide a very strong grip on the battery term.


For wire, I've often turned to Knukonceptz.
This kit has everything left except for the right speaker wire. It comes with wire for your subs, however.
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KFX-AK44
http://www.knukonceptz.com/assets/productimages/KFX-AK44.JPG

This is the 4 RCA setup, you can also get it with just a pair of RCA's.


Here's an example of good 4 conductor, 16 gauge speaker wire for in-wall use:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023903&p_id=4041&seq=1&format=2
http://images.monoprice.com/productmediumimages/40411.jpg


http://www.crutchfield.com/p_70316460/AudioQuest-FLX-16-4-4-Conductor-16-Gauge-In-Wall-Speaker-Cable-60-feet.html?search=4+conductor+wire&tp=1432
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2007/703/p70316460-f.jpeg

100 feet on eBay
http://cgi.ebay.com/CL3-Indoor-Outdoor-4-Conductor-Speaker-Wire-CL3-4-100_W0QQitemZ380083157196QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item380083157196&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A15|39%3A1|240%3A1318


And so on.

[Fourthmeal]

Ok, so where should I go with the deadening??

Obviously all the doors (because of the speakers)

How much of the trunk?

Should I do the entire floor?

Where else?



Deadening:
The inside and outside of the doors
Some parts of the floor under the carpet
Under any plastic trim panels you can take off inside the interior
The trunk completely, which means the sides, floor, and back.

60-100 sq feet does a whole medium car.

Ensolite:
You use this as a barrier layer in the doors, a layer on the entire floor of the trunk, and in spots where plastic trim panels contact parts of the car. You use the adhesive spray to get it stuck on there.

[Rosshole]

the 4 conductor would only run to the front doors, right? What should I use for the rear doors?

EDIT: Also, I may not be up for too difficult of an install, so I am not too sure about the all the tweeter work. I guess my question is can i get away with having a 2way or a 3way speaker instead of compnents?

[Fourthmeal]

It isn't too difficult, just takes a leap of faith and a drill bit.

The factory sound system has a tweeter/woofer setup, but unfortunately the wiring is not separate on them. They use a dinky capacitor on the tweeter to keep it from playing bass notes...that is it. This is one reason the stock stuff sounds so muddy.

You won't need to wire anything to the rear doors. The stock wire is sufficient...in fact the stock speakers are sufficient for most situations. That's what I did.

[Fourthmeal]

the 4 conductor would only run to the front doors, right? What should I use for the rear doors?

EDIT: Also, I may not be up for too difficult of an install, so I am not too sure about the all the tweeter work. I guess my question is can i get away with having a 2way or a 3way speaker instead of compnents?

Regarding your edit:

You can, but there is a case of diminishing returns when you cut the corners. In this case, the factory speaker is a two-way setup already. The tweeters are in the sills, right? Right by the door mirrors?

[Rosshole]

Regarding your edit:

You can, but there is a case of diminishing returns when you cut the corners. In this case, the factory speaker is a two-way setup already. The tweeters are in the sills, right? Right by the door mirrors?

yes, that is where they be... I just have to drill new holes in the grommet for 2 wirres of the 4 conductor then, right?

[Fourthmeal]

yes, that is where they be... I just have to drill new holes in the grommet for 2 wirres of the 4 conductor then, right?

Well, what I like to do is run fresh wire, because I'm in there. But, you're right, you could feasibly run just one more pair of wires, if you really wanted to. What you'd have to do somewhere in the wire run (probably close to the head unit) is splice in to the factory wire, and run your wire from that to the amps/processor/crossover area (there's options here, so I'm piling all that together.)

Either way, you've got two ways to get wire in the door. Drill through the connector, and run wire right through it, or drill a hole and make your own path above or below the main connector.

When I drilled my connector, I found the passenger one to be a breeze because the wiring is 1/2 as much. So, I picked out some dead space in the connector (where there were no pins and wire), and drilled a 1/4" hole right through. The driver's side was a bitch because there was no such space..the connector used up 90% of the available pin points. So, I drilled on the outside edge to sneak my wire in that way. Looking back on it, it wasn't a bad solution, but if it were anything but my own vehicle, I think I would have pulled the door off and drilled a fresh grommet hole. The only reason I'd not do it to a customer's car is because of liability in case I slipped and damaged any wire. I taped them away and protected them while I worked on my own, but I can't guarantee success 100% so I wouldn't do it to a customers. Incidentally, I had a chance to do this thing all over again on my Tribute, which has identical connectors. The bastards just don't go away! Once the wire is through the connector, it is quite easy to snake the wire through the factory rubber hose, and run the wire to the right spots.

[Fourthmeal]

I should probably mention at this point that the drilling thing is standard operating procedure to do it...I just hate doing it.

Here's a tutorial.
http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp~TID~78731~PN~1

[Rosshole]

Ok, so my first task is to deaden with Raammat and Ensolite. Then run 4 conductors from the front doors to where? behind the HU? Or to the trunk for the amp? Or to wherever the processor ends up(where would that work best?)

Edit: I can ebay the MTX r-q for $80. (sweet)
and the JL Audio CL441dsp CleanSweep for $150

[Rosshole]

I should probably mention at this point that the drilling thing is standard operating procedure to do it...I just hate doing it.

Here's a tutorial.
http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp~TID~78731~PN~1

that is a great write up.

[Fourthmeal]

Ok, so my first task is to deaden with Raammat and Ensolite. Then run 4 conductors from the front doors to where? behind the HU? Or to the trunk for the amp? Or to wherever the processor ends up(where would that work best?)

Edit: I can ebay the MTX r-q for $80. (sweet)
and the JL Audio CL441dsp CleanSweep for $150

1st: Yes, you deaden first. While the car is torn apart for deadening, it makes sense to run your power wire, RCA's, and speaker wire. The 4 conductor will head towards the trunk. If the battery is on the driver's side (like I think it is), then you'll want to run your 4 gauge power wire around the driver's side door jamb area. The RCA's will probably go from the processor (usually located under the passenger seat or behind the glovebox) to the amps, in the trunk. I'd route this wire right down the centerline of the car. The speaker wire could then take the opposite door jamb area.


2nd: Avoid the Clean Sweep like the plague. I hate the thing. No adjustment at all. In fact, I'd avoid ebaying any processor, given the lack of support if it dies. If you do get the MTX, get the ReQ5, which has better controls, and supports more channels. I'd recommend putting a large portion of your budget here though, and go digital. The Alpine PXE-H650, the Rockford Fosgate 3sixty.2 (not .1), the upcoming JBL MS8 (someday), or an Audiocontrol digital processor/crossover. The reason for considering a digital processor is that you'll have many levels of control, and the added advantage of a powerful crossover. They cost more, but do more. Also, if you ever sell the car, pull it out and you're good to go. A good processor will probably be a one-time purchase until someone figures out how to make a factory head unit compatible with aftermarket gear directly without sound quality loss.

To dig deeper into these advanced processors:

You get crossover control. Crossovers on these things are the type that let you run tweeters and woofers without those passive crossover boxes. That means you can run individual speakers, instead of blowing your money on component sets. It also means that with even modest speakers, you'll have outstanding detail and clarity because the power-robbing and distortion-inducing crossover boxes are gone. Disadvantage is that you'll need to have an amp with one channel per speaker. That means 4 channels for your front woofers and tweeters. Not a big deal, but something to mention.

You get time-alignment control. Time alignment in the sense of speakers means that you can adjust the delay of each speaker individually. Doing this makes the farthest speakers (like the right side front and rear) seem like they are equidistant compared to the closer left front speakers. The effect is excellent if you are used to perfect-placement speakers for home use. The acoustic feeling in your head is that suddenly the music is dancing on your dash and in front of your car, not in the doors by your feet. Time alignment can also make the subwoofer feel like it is placed in your engine compartment or in your lap. It is amazing to work with.

You get EQ control. Two main kinds of equalization to work with here. The head unit adds EQ that you must neutralize to get the most out of any system utilizing the stock deck. You know that as well as I do. The other kind of EQ is the small touches you can do to improve the sound quality to your liking. If you like the cymbals to shimmer more, you can do so. And, you can make tweaks to it any time you want.


Compared with, say, the MTX ReQ-5, a digital processor would let you purchase individual speakers and create your own "component" match up, which can easily be cheaper and many times better sounding than a store-bought setup. Also, you have fine control over exactly what happens to each speaker, so you can tailor the sound to compensate for installation positions, personal taste, and equipment choices as well. Up to a point, of course.

IMO, if you are willing, putting a large amount of your budget in a processor isn't a bad idea at all. Consider that I bought my RF3sixty.2 when it just came out a few years ago, and have installed it in 2 builds so far. Each time, setup was a snap, and the product has no wear and tear involved so it should last a very long time.

[Rosshole]

I am with you 100% and this al makes tons of sense, but i don't know if I trust my abilities to set the processor up properly for it to even be worth it... is it idiot proof?

EDIT: I reread the info on it and apparently it is idiot proof (the alpine that is) but I just think most of these options would be wasted on me. I think that the MTX will be a suitible choice for me (I can always upgrade later right)

[Fourthmeal]

Yes, you can always upgrade later but choose wisely at this point for the simple fact that with a good processor now, I can help you pick out speakers that otherwise wouldn't be an option for you.

Example:

Say you have a quality front component set like the Alpine Type X REF series. They are pretty good, and definitely worth considering for any audio setup. They run about $199-225. Not bad amongst the upper-mid range component sets.

Compare that with, say, a pair of Mach5 woofers selling for $35 each. That's $70. Then, pair that with some decent tweeters, say $25 each. That's 50. For $120, you've created a killer set of your own choosing. There is also a high likelihood that this setup will DESTROY the Alpine set.

Setup of an active processor is no more daunting than actually installing a sub box. The difference is that it is almost all done using your mind instead of your hands. All that really needs to be known is a basic understanding of what crossovers do, what frequencies go where, and how to test and tune. And that, my friend, is something that I can teach you on demand as you go.

IMO, the choice is yours and you'll probably be happy with both. Just keep in mind that flexibility is a great asset in system design.

[Fourthmeal]

Here is an example of an economical separate tweeter/woofer setup:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=275-040
http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_standard/275-040_s.jpg
This is a reference to a review done on the tweeter:
http://zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/ (just hunt down the Dayton ND28F)
Those are $19.80 each.

A good woofer like the Dayton RS150-4 is a healthy mate to this tweeter.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-372
http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_standard/295-372_s.jpg
So these are referenced here:
http://zaphaudio.com/5.5test/
These run $32.54 each.

So, grand total (shipping is included apparently), $104.68 for a complete setup.

[Rosshole]

ok, I will be deciding on speakers and such later.

Well, I am not as much of an audiophile as you, so I am leaning towards the MTX, so lets go from there.

Thanks for all of the advice today, I will start hiding money and supplies and get to work wiring and deadening, I will get back to you soon.

[Fourthmeal]

Ok, fair enough.

Best price found so far is $99 from millionbuy.com http://www.millionbuy.com/mtxreq5.html

Good people.

Just update the thread when you're ready to move forward or if you need a suitable alternative (like deadener), and I'll try to jump on it.

[Rosshole]

werd, much appreciated.

[Rosshole]

BUMP... Fourthmeal, I was talking with some car audio people that I know over the weekend and it was their opinion that the Mazda6 has a very flat eq out of the head unit and I was recommended to no use a processor. What are your thoughts on this?

[Fourthmeal]

According to a website that deals 100% with Mazda 6's, this wasn't the case. In fact, the person I learned of the EQ from took the entire head unit apart, discovered EQ circuits in the path of the signal, and removed them directly to create a flat signal. I tried this myself on my Mazda 3, but my head unit wasn't identical so I quickly got lost while trying to master the job.

I have pics of my attempt to tear the entire head unit apart, and let me tell you that I have no intention of doing that again without an exact plan.

In your situation, without the BOSE head unit, you indeed do have EQ built right into your head unit. It can be measured using an O-scope.

The curve looks more like a plateau, btw. The highs are lost since the factory tweeters can't play them, and the lows are lost since the factory speakers will crackle and fail as well. The result is a very "thin" sound, which is very apparent especially against a good set of earphones or home speakers. the good news, if there is any, is that the rears have this EQ effect WAY more than the fronts, but the fronts still are hurtin'.

Like I said before, the MTX ReQ5 will not be perfect for this vehicle, but it will do. Mainly, what it does is remove noise that would otherwise be present in a non-isloated speaker-line output from the head unit to an amp. The MTX ReQ5 behaves like a line-driver, outputting the correct signal to the RCA's, hopefully with a low noise floor. With the ReQ5, you'll still have the internal EQ going on, but you can correct for some of the bass side of it (and the tweeters typically can be compensated for with the right settings on a good crossover, even passive ones.) Most people like softer tweeters, anyway.

All this is not true if you have the BOSE head unit, which is famously flat (but still should use a line-driver to keep a low noise floor.)

[Rosshole]

It is interesting that there are such differing opinons on the same exact thing out there.

[Fourthmeal]

I'm actually hunting down that link I used to find the info as we speak. The internet is HUGE and it makes it hard to find.

It was a French guy, who ripped apart the factory HU, and showed how to remove the offending parts. Alternately of course, you could run a processor. Given the extreme difficulty and risk involved in ripping the head unit apart, I suggest the processor.

It has been a good 2 years or so since I used the info, but I fondly recall burning 20 pages of color ink to get the right data.

Also...we know the factory HU is a Sanyo, because the boards and parts on it say so...

[Fourthmeal]

BTW, if not using a processor, what exactly are others telling you to do to get a signal to an amp?

[Rosshole]

BTW, if not using a processor, what exactly are others telling you to do to get a signal to an amp?

It was suggested to run it into the amp and let the amp process it itself. This is not really an otion because the amps that he said could do this well were Memphis and the like, which effectively kill my budget. He also gave me an arrogant speach about components costing less than $330 being total gargbage.

I didn't really get any worthwhile info from him other than well.... nothing.

I just thought I would ask the question.

This was at a high end shop that i am amazed is still in business after many years. They charge horrendous amounts for installs and sell only very high end models of stereo equipment.

I only went in to see anythere viewpoint which proved pointless as he was an asshole audiophile.

[Rosshole]

you would probably enjoy debating this guy...

[SATimko]

Most of the audio equipment sold in stores are priced based on hype and name. I've had speakers that were supposed to be "awesome" but were total shit. Screw that guy. Some of the best products out there are those that haven't ruined by the mainstream.

[Fourthmeal]

LOL guys...

I love throwing dicks like that into my car...I like to watch their jaws drop when I play something for them. Yeah, good equipment in the thousands of dollars is nice but completely unnecessary. What IS necessary is a solid install plan and execution, and attention to detail as much as possible. I also like using home audio speakers as long as they are spec'd to work as well in a car environment, which most actually are.

Honestly, I would enjoy debating someone like that, but I'd MUCH rather have a loyal follower of mine install a killer system, tune it perfectly, then show them the bill sheet after they've been blown away, only to shake their heads and wonder what is wrong with their approach to car audio.

I love high end gear, don't get me wrong...but honestly as long as the equipment is up to the task and is built well, the INSTALL will make the difference, I promise.


For this moment, trust me when I say that the deck is not flat on output. If you have access to an o-scope or access to an RTA, you'll see for yourself what I'm talking about. Especially the rear speakers (which don't matter), but even the fronts as well. If you take your deck apart, you'll actually see the little parts inside that are responsible for this.

I am still looking for the link to the French head unit mod.

[Rosshole]

Most of the audio equipment sold in stores are priced based on hype and name. I've had speakers that were supposed to be "awesome" but were total shit. Screw that guy. Some of the best products out there are those that haven't ruined by the mainstream.

this holds true in so many different applications.

[Fourthmeal]

Found it!
http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=66591


Unfortunately some of the links have died...so we only have partial info now.

Here's my install breakdown, using some of this knowledge:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7977&page=6

[Rosshole]

Fourth,

I am putting together a list of what I am going to need, my thought now it to slowly accumulate all that I need, then once I have it all, do the install over a weekend.

My question is about wht kind of amp to look for. I am leaning towards leaving the back door speakers running off of the head unit and keeping them stock, so are the front woofer and tweeter running off of separate channels or the same channel? In other words, how many channels am I going to need to run a Sub, 2 - Front Door Speakers, 2 Tweeters?

I hope that this made some sense.

Thanks.

[Fourthmeal]

Fourth,

I am putting together a list of what I am going to need, my thought now it to slowly accumulate all that I need, then once I have it all, do the install over a weekend.

My question is about wht kind of amp to look for. I am leaning towards leaving the back door speakers running off of the head unit and keeping them stock, so are the front woofer and tweeter running off of separate channels or the same channel? In other words, how many channels am I going to need to run a Sub, 2 - Front Door Speakers, 2 Tweeters?

I hope that this made some sense.

Thanks.


If you want to, you can do it stages. In fact, that's what I was doing to an '08 Focus over Thanksgiving weekend. We were on stage 1. That means we tore apart the car, deadened, pre-wired, and put the car back together. I'd recommend you do it like this, because when the car is apart, it is useless. You'll be able to do the entire car properly over a weekend, put it back together, then when your gear comes in and more time presents itself, you'll be able to go to stage 2...which is equipment basic installtion. Stage 3 is finishing, for most people, or sometimes it is installing enhancements (like going from passive to active.)

Run your rears off deck power, and choose whether you are going active or passive. Active needs one channel per speaker, so 4 channels for the front, and then a sub channel. Remember that there are two ways to get 5 channels of sound...either by a 5+ channel amp or by using more than one amp to get the total channels necessary. If you are running passive, you've got options. You can run a 4 channel amp, and bridge the two rear channels for a sub. Alternately, you can run a 4 channel amp, bridge the channels to power your fronts, and then run the sub off of either another amp or off a 5ch amp.

First thing's first...I'd order your deadener and wire, and get the foundation started. it takes a lot of time, so you'll be able to save up quite a bit before ordering gear. As a bonus, the time in between stage 1 and 2, you'll have a car that is fully deadened, so you'll already have an improved system that you'll be able to hear easily.

[Rosshole]

Ok, I just wanted to make sure that we were on the same page. I am putting together some info for myself with different configuration options.

I have found that the configurations are endless for deciding on active vs passive, four door or two door, one amp or two amp....

My head is spinning and i need to decide what i want to do. (and what is more cost effective)

So I guess my question is actually for myself and deciding what route to go...

Active or Passive?

Two amp or One amp? (I have a two channel amp that I can use for the sub channel 350-400 x 1 bridged)

Like I said, my head is really starting to spin.

[Fourthmeal]

you do have lots of options, but honestly it is up to you. I can make some really good suggestions once I know whether you want to go active or passive, and how much space you want to sacrifice (more amps = more space, just like subs.)

I'm here for ya.

[Rosshole]

you do have lots of options, but honestly it is up to you. I can make some really good suggestions once I know whether you want to go active or passive, and how much space you want to sacrifice (more amps = more space, just like subs.)

I'm here for ya.

I should probably go passive... I am pretty sure that the cost difference is negligible anyways, right?

can you give me a few pros and cons for Active vs. Passive?

thanks in advance, I really do appreciate your time and input...

[Fourthmeal]

Well we talked about passive and active before:

Passive means that the crossover points for a woofer and tweeter are determined by physical parts, like capacitors and resistors. This is why you see a crossover box with component speaker sets. That box directs highs to the tweeter, lows to the woofer.

Passive Pros:

- The woofer and tweeter share a channel of amplifier power
- It is a plug and play affair.

Passive Cons:

- Power handling is lower than with an active setup, because the passive crossovers do not have very good control on the speakers. As a result, things get "sloppy" at higher volumes.

- The crossover adds distortion, especially in the vocal range. This happens because the crossover parts are using the very nature of resistance, inductance, capacitance, etc. of electricity in a certain way. The tolerances for these parts are about 10%.

- Depending on the type of crossover used and the brand we're talking about, the crossover may not be well tuned to the speakers used.

- There is a phenomenon at higher power levels called "saturation", which is not good. Saturation can make music turn into mud as the crossover's physical parts are overwhelmed.

- There is no flexibility. Crossover points and slopes are not yours to adjust.

- The woofer to tweeter volume is not adjustable, typically. That means that if you install it, and the tweeter is too quiet or too loud...too bad.


When you go active, this means that you are sending your amps the correct frequencies to play directly. This usually occurs with a processor that can correctly handle the signal and send each speaker what it should.



Active Pros:

- Adjustability. You can modify what crossover frequency, what slope, what volume, everything. Sometimes you can even adjust time delay so the particular acoustics of your vehicle and install can be compensated for. This adjustability is a MAJOR plus, because fine tuning like subtle crossover adjustment can make or break a system.

- Power handling. Because you are able to tightly control exactly what frequencies go to what speakers, you can REALLY power up your gear. The difference is phenomenal, if you tune right. This is handy if you ever want to literally blast your music, like I sometimes do while my car is hosting the music at a park or a basketball court. It is also useful if you like being able to deafen yourself or friends in a showoff fashion. Active systems are able to tightly control frequencies so each speaker is playing in its "sweet spot"

- No saturation. By not having electronic components in the way of a high power signal, active setups are immune to this.

- Less distortion. By processing in either digitally or via a high quality analog signal, an active processor doesn't introduce as much distortion (and can potentially take distortion away)


Active cons:

- Takes time to set up. Active processors have a tweak/tune time associated with getting it just right. I personally enjoy this time most of all, but you may not.

- Costs more because a processor is another item to buy. It is a long-term product that can be used in many cars over time, because of its flexibility however. The overall cost is lowered potentially because an active processor can run a system that has been built out of individual speakers, which may be cheaper to buy than a component set with an integrated crossover. So, the cost can be offset almost 100%, if you want it to be.

- complexity. the processor must be powered up, and extra wires run. The additional effort is probably equivalent to ~$20 in wires, and 2 hours in install time.



I think that's the basics.

-

[Rosshole]

damn... thanks!

EDIT: I will be going passive.

[Fourthmeal]

OK, with a passive setup, the main thing to deal with is to make sure you choose a quality component set, one that has good speakers as well as crossovers, an otherwise forgotten thing.

With that in mind, you only need one channel per woofer/tweeter pair, so theoretically you only need 3 channels of power to fully power up a system. Of course, most amps are 4ch. If you want to do this as inexpensively as possible (for now), the best thing to do here is to simply pick up a powerful, yet inexpensive 4 channel amp. With this, you can power up your front components with channels 1 & 2, and then bridge your 3 & 4 to a sub. This also means you don't need a distribution block or ground block because you are going to only one amp. What I would do is pick out an amp that you like, that fits your size requirements, and one that you can later on find a sub amp to match it as your system grows along with your budget, if you choose. See, this gives you an "out" where you can later upgrade to active, buy another amp, and improve everything AFTER you have good audio to start with.


Amp suggestions (and there are MANY other than these, I'm just throwing out ideas:)

MB Quart Discus line, 80x4 @ 4ohm. This would be 80w per component pair, + 320w to your sub. PLENTY.
http://www.millionbuy.com/mbqdsc480.html
$129.95

Kicker '08 ZX350.4, 60x4 @ 4ohm. That's 60W per component, and 180w to your sub. Respectable.
http://www.millionbuy.com/kik08zx3504.html
$179.95

Eclipse EA4100, 75x4 @ 4ohm. 75 per component, 175 to your sub. Also pretty respectable.
http://www.millionbuy.com/eclea4100.html
$139.95

Phoenix Gold RSd 300.4, 48x4. 48 per component, 160 to your sub. A little under powered, but this amp is rated lower than it probably puts out. So...lets say it is underrated.
http://www.dealercostcaraudio.com/rsd3004.aspx
$173.00

Pioneer Premier PRS-D400F 75x4. 75 per component, 300 to your sub. PERFECT. In fact, I've owned this amp before and I loved it. Sold it for more than I bought it for.
http://www.dealercostcaraudio.com/prs-d4000f.aspx
$199.00


Pricing on eBay may be cheaper, of course. Also, dealercostcaraudio has good prices, but long wait time for some products. I'd call before ordering to verify ship date, because I have a few nightmares with them still in the works. Excellent pricing and they also do free ship and free 3yr warranty though. Millionbuy is exceptional hands down. One of the cheapest, and the fastest I've ever ordered from.


Ross, get your deadener, and wiring first so you can get all that out of the way before worrying about gear. Should take less than $250 to get all your wiring and deadener.

[Rosshole]

wow, you have no idea how much I appreciate all of this.

[Rosshole]

If I were to go active though, could you recommend a couple of amps... I know that there are far fewer 5 channel amps out there to choose from.

[Fourthmeal]

Sure. going Active, you can stick with the same kind of 4 channel amps, but then buy their mono channel equivalent for the sub(s). So, with the Pioneer PRS amp, you just find the 1100m sub amp to go with it. With the Eclipse, the XA1000 is its match. You can tell they match because they look the same. I personally NEED my amps to look the same and have the same brand and style, but that's just me.

The biggest thing to keep in mind when going active, is that you don't have to buy component speaker sets that are premade with a woofer and a tweeter. You can buy individual speakers that are probably way more capable and powerful, while spending less in most cases. That's the biggest single equipment difference.

The other advantages as I outlined above are due to the active processor itself, and the features it brings to the game.

IMO, don't fret about the active-passive issue. You can decide pretty far down the road and you can change your mind at any time. For now, lets get some basic stuff done so you can feel the sense of accomplishment and value for your money. That's the best part of stage building, IMO. Little steps, better each time, always able to keep the budget and the other ones in your family happy.

[Fourthmeal]

BTW, my equipment suggestions will change with availability and pricing, and right now the pickings are a little slim because of the big sales that are going on. However, if I was to pick out your two amps RIGHT NOW, at this very moment, I'd order the Eclipse XA1000 sub amp, and the Eclipse EA4000 4ch amp from millionbuy. It would be ~$260 for both amps. Those two are very powerful, efficient (less draw on your electrical system - bonus), cheap right now, and well made amps.

[Rosshole]

The other advantages as I outlined above are due to the active processor itself, and the features it brings to the game.

When you speak of this active processor, you are talking about the MTX re- q5 and the like.

[Fourthmeal]

No, MTX ReQ5 doesn't do active processing. It simply makes the signal coming from your stock deck compatible with aftermarket gear. This particular processor also has the side benefit of a bass restoration circuit, in analog form, to try to flatten out the lost signal quality of the stock head unit.

An active processor (Alpine PXE-H650, Rockford Fosgate 3sixty.2 takes the same signal, breaks it down digitally so you can distribute the right frequencies to the right speakers, processes equalization, bass and treble restoration, and time alignment functions, and allows for tight control of the system.

They are in a different class.

[Rosshole]

ah, thank you for that clarification!

[Fourthmeal]

Its not a problem. Also, its not as if you can't later on sell the MTX ReQ5 to someone on here when you want to upgrade someday. The thing will probably last forever.

Let me know when you are ready to get your "stage 1" started, and I'll try to find the best deals for that moment.

[Rosshole]

what about iPod connectivity?

this may actually happen first.

[Fourthmeal]

Umm...well, don't you have an aux input in your center console like I did? If not, I think your head unit can hook up to an adaptor that takes the satellite radio connection and uses it for iPod.

Also, and this may be yet another benefit for active processors...most of the digital processors we've covered actually have aux. inputs. This would be the easy way.

[Rosshole]

no, I don't have the aux input, how would an aux input work on the processor if I am still running the back doors off of the stock HU?

[Fourthmeal]

It wouldn't! You'd have two things playing at once. The only way to get all parts working as they should would be to either run all speakers to the processor (that's doable), or find the adaptor it takes to run your stock head unit to an iPod. They are around.

[Fourthmeal]

Example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/04-08-OEM-Mazda-3-6-MX5-RX8-CX7-CX9-iPod-Adapter_W0QQitemZ370116794690QQcmdZViewItemQQptZOt her_MP3_Player_Accessories?hash=item370116794690&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mazda-6-03-08-iPod-Adapter-Interface-GROM-MAZI_W0QQitemZ400014358489QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_E lectronics_Parts_Accessories?hash=item400014358489&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

[Rosshole]

ok, I will try to find one that will let me control the mosic through the iPod, NOT the stock HU.

[Fourthmeal]

well, as costly as those adapters are, you can easily redirect those funds to the right processor.

Ask yourself...do you need the rear speakers to play your iPod music? Or would it be OK to have your front components and sub play that instead? That's what I did for my speed3, when I had it hooked up to the RF 3sixty.2. sure, that car had an aux input, but when I used the aux in on the processor, the sound was WAY better, probably because it was going on a shorter audio signal path.



OOOH...found something.

Look close:

The MTX ReQ5 HAS the input. Right on the volume knob.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_10834_MTX+Audio+reQ-5+-re-Q%3Csup%3E5%3C-sup%3E-.html
http://server6.sonicelectronix.com/images/55908/big/req5.jpg

[Rosshole]

This would render all of the cars stock controls useless, right?

including volume?

[Rosshole]

my decision was just made more compicated...

[Fourthmeal]

Only for iPod.

Everything else is fine.


If you listen to iPod a LOT...then get the adapter from ebay or the manufacturer/dealer.

[Rosshole]

Only for iPod.

Everything else is fine.


If you listen to iPod a LOT...then get the adapter from ebay or the manufacturer/dealer.

the problem is, most of those only play certain playlists from the ipod and do not offer control from the ipod itself, which I prefer. So an aux input into the processor would be ideal.

[Fourthmeal]

Agreed. Cheaper too. Honestly if you want to, you can power the 4 channel amp you have in mind to run the rear speakers as well. This would completely solve the dilemma, with the only remaining difference being that you use the volume knob to adjust the volume when you are using the iPod.

Second idea...why not hunt down an adapter that simply hooks up an AUX in (of any kind, not iPod),...

[Rosshole]

Agreed. Cheaper too. Honestly if you want to, you can power the 4 channel amp you have in mind to run the rear speakers as well. This would completely solve the dilemma, with the only remaining difference being that you use the volume knob to adjust the volume when you are using the iPod.

Second idea...why not hunt down an adapter that simply hooks up an AUX in (of any kind, not iPod),...

yeah, I am looking for a reliable one... the AUXMOD unit for $60 looks kinda cheap... we'll see.

[Rosshole]

what I should do is just buy the Alpine PDX Five and 360.2 .... if only money weren't an object.

[Fourthmeal]

Yeah, the 3sixty.2 is good (as is the Alpine PXE-H650), and the PDX amps are awesome. But, cost of the PDX amps is actually VERY reasonable for what they are. They are tiny, they use ICEpower (my favorite form of amplification), and they are very powerful. Plus...they just sound and look great.

The PDX5 can be had for around $360 or so, and at that price it is a steal. I also think at this price point that a pair of Pioneer Premier PRS amps (the mono and a 4 ch) are hard to beat.

[Fourthmeal]

IMO, the solution for this problem is to go ahead and power up the rear speakers, thus giving the entire car the input for iPod or whatever else is to connect to Aux.

The MTX ReQ5, Alpine PXE-H650, and Rockford 3Sixty.2 all have this aux. in, and will all do it correctly.

This solves your problem of wanting to access the iPod via the device itself, and since the processor is necessary anyway, you're not adding expense. Because you've chosen a passive setup, your not going to have any trouble with a 4 channel amp and a mono sub amp (or alternatively a 5ch combo amp.)

Problem solved.

[Rosshole]

IMO, the solution for this problem is to go ahead and power up the rear speakers, thus giving the entire car the input for iPod or whatever else is to connect to Aux.

The MTX ReQ5, Alpine PXE-H650, and Rockford 3Sixty.2 all have this aux. in, and will all do it correctly.

This solves your problem of wanting to access the iPod via the device itself, and since the processor is necessary anyway, you're not adding expense. Because you've chosen a passive setup, your not going to have any trouble with a 4 channel amp and a mono sub amp (or alternatively a 5ch combo amp.)

Problem solved.

Yes sir. Solved.

[Fourthmeal]

Speaking of which...those Eclipse amps are still out there, looking mighty good. Also, although it is really big, the Infinity 5 channel amp is quite nice for a subtle system.

[Rosshole]

Speaking of which...those Eclipse amps are still out there, looking mighty good. Also, although it is really big, the Infinity 5 channel amp is quite nice for a subtle system.

I have been eyeing up that infinity for $200 for some time now... also, Blaupunkt has a 5 channel that has been discounted alot just recently.

[Fourthmeal]

Blaus are OK, but not my fav. If you want a 5 channel, let me do some searchin'

[Fourthmeal]

This is nice, for a 5 ch:

http://www.millionbuy.com/mbqpab5400.html
$219..same as the Infinity, and better.

http://www.millionbuy.com/hifzxi8008.html
This is a Hifonics, which are pretty nice and powerful, and cheap. They do tend to be slightly noisier and less sound quality, but it is subtle and for the price they are fantastic.
$169

Just remember at the ~$299+ range, a pair of amps gets you more for less. That said, I think you'd be very pleased with the MB Quart amp for the price. If not that, I'd run the Eclipse XA1000 and EA4100 set, which should be $259 for both.

[Rosshole]

This is nice, for a 5 ch:

http://www.millionbuy.com/mbqpab5400.html
$219..same as the Infinity, and better.

http://www.millionbuy.com/hifzxi8008.html
This is a Hifonics, which are pretty nice and powerful, and cheap. They do tend to be slightly noisier and less sound quality, but it is subtle and for the price they are fantastic.
$169

Just remember at the ~$299+ range, a pair of amps gets you more for less. That said, I think you'd be very pleased with the MB Quart amp for the price. If not that, I'd run the Eclipse XA1000 and EA4100 set, which should be $259 for both.

I like the idea of the MB Quart also.

[Fourthmeal]

Well for the price it is exceptional. It would be easy to stealth-mount it as well, because it is so flat.

Consider that one, for sure.


What's your next step?

[Rosshole]

Well for the price it is exceptional. It would be easy to stealth-mount it as well, because it is so flat.

Consider that one, for sure.


What's your next step?

Well, I need to order deadening (after I get back from Colorado in early January (going halfsies with a buddy)

[Fourthmeal]

Sounds good. A roll of RAAMmat will do your car. 3-4 yards of Ensolite will cover that, and you'll need 2 cans of spray adhesive. I'd buy a third, since the stuff is useful elsewhere on the project.