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View Full Version : Common Detailing Myths


2Shiny
02-04-2006, 12:52 PM
1. The sun causes swirl marks.

Hell no!

2. Swirl marks are created from rubbing/washing/wiping in a circular motion.

No. Swirl marks are composed of tiny, straight-line scratches. They are so tiny and numerous, that there is always one in the right place to make the swirls appear circular. If you look closely enough though, you will notice that the majority of the scratches are in straight lines.
And even if they WERE circular, if you're causing scratches in the paint, that means you're wiping something abrasive on the paint. It doesn't matter whether you're doing it in a circular motion or straight lines...if it's abrasive, it will scratch. If it's NOT abrasive, it will NOT scratch.

3. Waxing too much will take the paint off.

No. A pure wax is merely a protectant, with no cleaners or abrasives. Use of this type of product has no detrimental effects to the paint, only benefits.
Some waxes contain abrasives (e.g. NuFinish, Liquid Glass, EO NanoWax), and do remove a tiny amount of paint upon each application. But this amount is a very small fraction of the paint that is on the car. Even use of one of these products, dozens and dozens of times, will not remove the paint entirely. Polishing is what can remove a lot of paint if a strong compound is needed. Polishing too much can thin the paint to a critical level. Most of the UV inhibitors in automotive clearcoat paints reside in the top ~50% of the clear. If you polish this much paint off, you're relying on the UV inhibiting properties of the wax/sealant alone (that is, if you apply a wax/sealant to it). For the record though, less-aggressive polishes can be used dozens and dozens of times as well. The amount of paint removed is very negligible. It's only when you need to remove wetsanding marks or very heavy oxidation, that a strong compound needs to be be used, and that's when you need to be careful.

4. Paint (especially red) fades naturally over time, and you can't stop it.

BS! All paints will gradually fade if left unprotected. UV radiation is damaging to just about every surface. A protectant serves as a sacrificial barrier to UV radiation. It takes the beating, rather than the surface underneath.
If the paint does get faded, all you need to do is use a strong paint cleaner or a light polish, which will remove the oxidation that is causing the fading. The other possibility is swirls. Heavy swirling will also fade the paint. That's because there are so many scratches, that the light cannot get through the clear into the basecoat (color coat) to reflect back, showing the true color. The light gets refracted from all the scratches, and you never get to see the true color of the paint until you remove those scratches.

5. Soap is soap. I can use dish soap, car soap, or laundry detergent to wash my car. The only difference is the smell.

My dad used Purex laundry detergent to wash his cars the last two times. But hopefully the problem is solved now, because I gave him a sheepskin wash mitt and a jug of car soap for Christmas. But all soaps are NOT the same. Some are designed to produce a lot of suds, some are designed to avoid scratching, some are designed to focus on grease-cutting ability, and some formulated to clean fabrics, not hard surfaces. Car soap is specifically made for washing cars. It's designed to allow you to wash your vehicle safely, and most of them are biodegradeable as well. Laundry detergent and dish soaps will not provide adequate lubrication to safely remove dirt from the car. They often will dry out your door seals and tires as well.

6. The wax determines the gloss/reflectivity of the paint.

No. Paint cleaning and polishing are the steps that make a car look great. Waxes/sealants are designed to protect the car. Most OTC waxes have light cleaners or abrasives, and will restore the paint a little bit, but not the way a true polish or paint cleaner can. If someone says they applied 5 "layers" of Gold Class to their car and it looked better each time, it was merely the action of the cleaners, cleaning the paint more upon each application. Gold Class cannot layer, because of it's cleaning ability. Each subsequent application removes any previous ones. In fact, most waxes (even without cleaners) cannot be layered, because the wax is not strong enough to withstand the solvents of the new application.

7. New cars don't need to be polished or waxed.

New cars are often in great shape when they arrive at the new car dealership, but they will quickly be harmed as they go through the prep process. RIDS will occur if the person removing the protective plastic contacts the paint with their belt buckle, wristwatch, etc.... Swirls are usually created on new cars because dealerships love to have inexperienced, unknowledgeable workers in the "detailing" department, using dangerous rotary polishers. The cars are left to sit in the parking lot, looking worse than when they came in. Go to a dealership sometime on a sunny day and have a look. If the cars are not covered in swirls, it's likely that the paint was glazed, meaning that the swirls are hidden behind a coating of fillers. Within a couple washes, or a couple weeks of time, these fillers will wear off, revealing the swirls that were there all along. So they DO need to be polished, to get rid of the swirls. And they do need to be waxed, because dealerships don't generally wax cars. They just polish them to get any oxidation off. Then they hope for lots of cloudy days so nobody can see what the paint really looks like.

8. Clearcoat paints never need to be waxed.

Clearcoats are just ordinary paint, lacking a pigment. It still needs to be protected. The clearcoat serves as a protectant for the color coat, but the clearcoat needs protection as well. If left unprotected, it will oxidize, and hide the true color of the color coat.


9. I paid extra for the "lifetime paint sealant" at my dealership, so I never need to wax my car.

Wrong. The "lifetime" sealants that dealers apply are a very expensive gimmick. They will not protect your paint for the life of the vehicle. It's more likely that they'll last a month or two. But a lot of people never wash their cars, so they'll never notice if the car beads water or not, and they won't notice the fading of the paint either.

10. I applied Teflon Car Wax to my car, and now it will come clean just like my non-stick cookware!

Wrong. Teflon in car wax was a great marketing idea, because the majority of the population gets a mental image of cleaning Teflon-coated cookware. The reality is that Teflon must be applied under high heat and pressure in order to bond to a surface (something like 340*F or more). Even if you did apply this wax to your car inside a giant pressure cooker, carnauba wax has a melting point FAR below 340*F, so you the wax would melt right off anyway.

11. A nice thick coat of wax is best.

No. Regardless of how thick you apply the wax, the same amount will actually stick to the paint. The thicker you apply it, the more you waste by picking it up in the towel. That also makes it more difficult to remove, because so much excess product is being smeared around on the paint.

12. Carnauba car waxes can be 100% carnauba.

No. 100% carnauba wax would be hard as a rock. There would be no safe way to apply it to any surface. Every car wax contains solvents, which soften the wax (more solvents in liquids) to allow it to be applied to a surface. These evaporate as you apply the product, and leave the hardened wax behind. If a manufacturer claims that their product contains 100% carnauba wax, it's just a way of saying that the wax is refined to remove impurities.


I'll probably think of more. Anyone want to argue any of these? :)

atticus1398
02-04-2006, 01:47 PM
Great post 2shiny. Although I have my opinions regarding red paint. It seems to oxidize faster than most. Take stop signs for example. I believe red is just a harder color to produce and keep. Same goes for red ink, shirts, etc.

2Shiny
02-04-2006, 02:09 PM
As far as I know, It's not that red actually oxidizes/fades faster than other colors, it's just that it's more obvious than other colors.

atticus1398
02-04-2006, 02:12 PM
just noticed you sig. Klasse AIO/FourStar UPP/Pinnacle Paste Glaze.
Im using Klasse AIO, Wolfgangs, and Nattys Paste, along with the P/C random orbital. The AIO is great stuff, but Im looking for something that cuts better. Maybe some SSR2? What do you think?

2Shiny
02-04-2006, 02:38 PM
just noticed you sig. Klasse AIO/FourStar UPP/Pinnacle Paste Glaze.
Im using Klasse AIO, Wolfgangs, and Nattys Paste, along with the P/C random orbital. The AIO is great stuff, but Im looking for something that cuts better. Maybe some SSR2? What do you think?

Glaz. :)

AIO has never shown any cutting ability for me. Some people may claim to see reduced swirls from AIO. I won't say I'm right and they're wrong, because that's certainly not how I am. I enjoy hearing other opinions, and discussing various products/processes.
But IMO, anything will cut better than AIO. SSR2 would be a perfect example. That's what I use on my car twice a year, just to remove the very light swirls that are so difficult to prevent on a daily driver.
AIO really shines in paint cleaning ability, but I just don't see it as being a good product for SMR.

atticus1398
02-04-2006, 02:40 PM
Yeah, Ive read: AIO contains no cutting abrasives. But I get roped into detailing friends cars, and the AIO doesnt "cut" it. (hand)

2Shiny
02-04-2006, 02:44 PM
Im using Klasse AIO, Wolfgangs, and Nattys Paste


That's one of my favorite combos...

http://autopia.org/gallery/data/500/After12.JPG

http://autopia.org/gallery/data/500/Hood_AIO_WG_Nattys.JPG

Awesome stuff! And slick as hell too!

atticus1398
02-04-2006, 02:45 PM
was thinking of trying out the Nattys Blue, for my g/f new Black Mazda3. but the Nattys regular looks pretty damn good on black too.

2Shiny
02-04-2006, 02:47 PM
Yeah, Ive read: AIO contains no cutting abrasives. But I get roped into detailing friends cars, and the AIO doesnt "cut" it. (hand)


I use SSR2.5 most often on other cars. After a couple tunnel washes, it seems SSR2 isn't strong enough to handle it. 2.5 with a green pad usually comes through for me well though. Often there's not even a need to follow up with a lighter polish.

2Shiny
02-04-2006, 02:48 PM
I honestly can't tell a difference between Nattys and Nattys Blue on any color. But NB smells like gumballs, so I love it anyway!

atticus1398
02-04-2006, 02:49 PM
ive been a littl scared to try the ssr2.5 with a cutting pad. im still an apprentice, lol

2Shiny
02-04-2006, 02:50 PM
Come on...I used SSR3/rotary/orange, then SSR3/PC/yellow, then SSR2.5/PC/green on my dad's minivan!

atticus1398
02-04-2006, 02:52 PM
maybe I will practice on MP3Joshs hood that is laying in Amys basement, LOL

MyZmZm
02-04-2006, 04:39 PM
4. Paint (especially red) fades naturally over time, and you can't stop it.

BS! All paints will gradually fade if left unprotected.
I agree with you on this, but I also agree with atticus. No matter the colour of your paint, you do need to care for it and protect it or it will fade/oxidize.

Here's my analogy: Take for instance dying your hair. Any shade of red will fade faster than any other colour you may dye your hair - it's simply due to the red pigments. They're just not as 'durable' as the other colours. It stands to reason then that this could also apply to the red pigments in car paint. Or am I out to lunch here? :)

atticus1398
02-04-2006, 05:03 PM
I agree with you on this, but I also agree with atticus. No matter the colour of your paint, you do need to care for it and protect it or it will fade/oxidize.

Here's my analogy: Take for instance dying your hair. Any shade of red will fade faster than any other colour you may dye your hair - it's simply due to the red pigments. They're just not as 'durable' as the other colours. It stands to reason then that this could also apply to the red pigments in car paint. Or am I out to lunch here? :)

thats excactly what i was trying to say. stop signs are the best example. unless its fairly new, theyre all faded.

2Shiny
02-04-2006, 07:01 PM
Here's my analogy: Take for instance dying your hair. Any shade of red will fade faster than any other colour you may dye your hair - it's simply due to the red pigments. They're just not as 'durable' as the other colours.


Hmm... I don't know for sure, but this I DO know:

Keep your paint cleaned and waxed/sealed, and you won't have to worry about fading paint!

I'm going to attempt to figure out why red colored items might fade faster than others. I'll post it in here if I can find anything.

2Shiny
02-04-2006, 07:10 PM
For you, Andrea... :)

"...red hair color fades faster than other shades because the red color molecule is the largest, making it the most difficult for the hair shaft to hold on to. 'The key to long-term success is to use a shampoo and conditioner especially formulated to preserve red hair color from day one'"

http://beauty.ivillage.com/hair/color/0,,7g91zlpk-p,00.html

2Shiny
02-04-2006, 07:16 PM
OK, now I see the complete opposite...

"It has been proven scientifically that the color molecules in ruby tones are much smaller than those in other color molecules. As a result, they tend to fade or wash out much more quickly than other hues.

Although red hues fade fastest, every shade of color is subject to premature fading. "

http://www.hairboutique.com/tips/tip8069.htm


So it's debatable whether red color molecules are big or small I guess.

2Shiny
02-04-2006, 07:45 PM
Of course! I've got the answer!

Red color is of the longest wavelength (lowest energy level). Whatever color a pigment does not reflect, it absorbs. So red pigment absorbs the most energy out of any color, because it's at the lowest-energy end of the spectrum.

atticus1398
02-04-2006, 07:57 PM
which is why a freshly detailed Porsche or Ferrari(red) owns all.

MyZmZm
02-04-2006, 11:37 PM
Paul, sometimes I think you try just a little too hard... lol j/k. But I guess thanks are in order. Did you end up going to your science textbooks for your last post? :D

2Shiny
02-05-2006, 01:39 AM
Nope, I was reading about the Declaration of Independence at PBS.org. Then there was a diagram of the visible light spectrum, and I remembered from botany that a lot of plants use blue light because of its high energy. Red happens to be at the opposite end of the spectrum. Further reading confirmed it.

BRIAN MP5T
03-17-2006, 06:25 PM
Great Read Paul.

Now hook me up with some Killer Shit! (Really)

JMV
03-17-2006, 08:31 PM
good stuff!!

I look forward to getting into detailing at my birthday when i get my Zaino package. Its not as intensive as all the stuff you do, but i think it'll be a darn good start.

MyZmZm
03-17-2006, 08:47 PM
just wait... the zaino package is only the beginning. talk to paul a little, and you'll find yourself dropping $$$ on various detailing supplies. it happened to me, it can happen to you. :D

2Shiny
03-17-2006, 08:57 PM
LOL it's all for the better, Andrea. Just wait til spring rolls around when you can start using all your new stuff.

terbow
03-17-2006, 11:31 PM
yea just wait andrea, just wait, u spend 200bucks by talking to paul. yea then when its the first nice day, u decide to claybar your car, cause its nice and u want to fix it up, make it all pretty, then 5 mins into it you notice a fucking bee on ur shoulder , cause god forbid they wait till spring, then u drop the claybar into the dirt and you have to throw it out so ur paint doenst look like u ran a cheese grater over it. 16.00 down the drain. thanks paul thanks.

;)

MyZmZm
03-17-2006, 11:40 PM
yea just wait andrea, just wait, u spend 200bucks by talking to paul. yea then when its the first nice day, u decide to claybar your car, cause its nice and u want to fix it up, make it all pretty, then 5 mins into it you notice a fucking bee on ur shoulder , cause god forbid they wait till spring, then u drop the claybar into the dirt and you have to throw it out so ur paint doenst look like u ran a cheese grater over it. 16.00 down the drain. thanks paul thanks.

;)
(haspit) (rlaugh)

2Shiny
03-17-2006, 11:47 PM
yea just wait andrea, just wait, u spend 200bucks by talking to paul. yea then when its the first nice day, u decide to claybar your car, cause its nice and u want to fix it up, make it all pretty, then 5 mins into it you notice a fucking bee on ur shoulder , cause god forbid they wait till spring, then u drop the claybar into the dirt and you have to throw it out so ur paint doenst look like u ran a cheese grater over it. 16.00 down the drain. thanks paul thanks.

;)

Glad I could be of assistance. :)

MetalSPEED
04-07-2006, 09:28 AM
haha nice one