248hp @ 10psi

[HorsepowerFreak]

These figures are based on crank horsepower

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b350/StudioSP/SonicSpeed/dyno_msp.jpg


This was done with CortSport downpipe-back exhaust, Injen Intake, and Unichip EMS (peak HP was made at 10psi)

[HorsepowerFreak]

These figures are based on crank horsepower

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b350/StudioSP/SonicSpeed/dyno_msp.jpg


This was done with CortSport downpipe-back exhaust, Injen Intake, and Unichip EMS (peak HP was made at 10psi)

[Dexter]

Nice...

[Ken@ProtegeGarage]

this is taken from the unichip website, no?

[HorsepowerFreak]

this is taken from the unichip website, no?

Yup, that's the one they use as a product display.

[Super Matty P]

i'd like to see what it looks like at the wheels. That's really the only number that matters. The proteges are notorious for not putting down the power they claim at the engine. Also, things like wheel sizes/ weights really hurt acceleration and power so a more true test of a cars power is just a good old standard dyno.

[Jeph]

Thats pretty impressive still though. Factoring in drivetrain loss you'd still be over 200 i hope...

[Super Matty P]

I figure a 23% loss since thats what most other proteges see. So that would mean about 191whp.

[daedalus]

does unichip have their own dyno software or something? they allways have these different (and very nice looking) dyno charts... whats the dealyo?

[Peepsalot]

I figure a 23% loss since thats what most other proteges see. So that would mean about 191whp.
I don't think it's that much. The MSP is rated at 170, and usually dyno's about 150, which would make it more like a 12% loss.

[Super Matty P]

I was going by the 30hp loss on a protege. Didn't think about using a stock msp dyno. I think iirc, my stock msp was about 148whp.

Refiguring the numbers puts it at about 218whp.

[anarchistchiken]

Not bad for under $1000. You'd need a DP, midpipe, upgraded intercooler, and a MBC to get much over that safely.

[HorsepowerFreak]

Not bad for under $1000. You'd need a DP, midpipe, upgraded intercooler, and a MBC to get much over that safely.

The CorkSport exhaust is a downpipe back, so it's got an incorporated mid-pipe.

MBC? Why do you say that? EBC's are much better to prevent spikes and such. The Unichip has a built in EBC, that's where the 10psi came from. It actually goes up to 12/13, but peak HP was made at 10psi.

That dyno sheet is over a year old at this point. I have a downpipe now (so full 60mm turbo-back). FMIC is on the way. I also have an UOR flywheel (9lb I think?) and I race w/ 15" aluminum wheels.

I have about ZERO intention of making anymore power than this to be honest. I have no desire to break anything. Diff, rod, axles, etc. I've got probably two dozen drag runs w/ slicks. I've been lucky so far, so I'm not going to push my luck. :)

[HorsepowerFreak]

I highly doubt the drivetrain loss is 23%. That sounds insanely high for a FWD vehicle.

Unichip (Dastek rather) is a company based out of South Africa. They make their own dynos to test their product. The way their dynos work is to figure a crank number. I'm not sure why someone would say "whp is all that matters". shrug. I don't know what difference it makes if you're comparing crank to crank to see your increase. Dynos are to measure power increases, not for bragging rights or anything else. Sure, it’d be good to know your drivetrain loss, but you don’t need that to know what power you are making. They CAN do whp; they just didn’t get that figure when they had my car. If I ever make it out there again I will have them do that also. They want my car again to do a bigger injector map. There’s a Dynojet next door that I need to test on, but just have not got around to it yet. I just need to ask and we can strap ‘er down. I would be interested to see results on another dyno myself.

I've never admitted this on the regular Protege board, but my car actually made 170whp straight out of the box 100% bone stock. Keep that to the 1337 board please. ;)

[Jeph]

I've never admitted this on the regular Protege board, but my car actually made 170whp straight out of the box 100% bone stock. Keep that to the 1337 board please. ;)

Factory Freak huh?

[Super Matty P]

the reason I said "whp is all that matters" is because the point of modifying your car is to make it go faster. Putting more power TO THE WHEELS is how you make it go faster.

hypothetically speaking. You can make 1000bhp but only 30WHP...will it be fast? nope.

Engine dyno's are good for what you said...showing the gain of each mod. But how well that mod ACTUALLY makes your car work is what the chasis dyno will tell you.

[HorsepowerFreak]

Crank hp numbers won't change with how you have your vehicle set up for the street or race though. I daily drive with 17" wheels that weigh about 20lbs each (stock MSP RH's) and at the track I race with 15" aluminum wheels w/ MT baby slicks. That's going to make a factor when it comes to drivetrain loss, no?

Optimally I would like to know figures for:
1.) Daily driven trim (17" wheels, lower boost/fuel) WHP
2.) Daily driven trim (17" wheels, lower boost/fuel) CHP
3.) Race trim (15" wheels, aggressive boost/fuel) WHP
4.) Race trim (15" wheels, aggressive boost/fuel) CHP

I have never heard of someone going to the trouble of finding all these numbers however. This will give you actuate figures for what you are doing with the vehicle. An actual functional use for a dyno. Most of the time these kids just slap their car on and go bragging "I made this much HP". There are many variables when making horsepower, right? When you don't address them then you're produced numbers are not going to stay the same.

[JDM Sam]

Using which timing map. I find that hard to believe on Map A. Map A's timing is so weak you can run 1 bar and not worry about timing induced detonation.

[CasopoliS]

Using which timing map. I find that hard to believe on Map A. Map A's timing is so weak you can run 1 bar and not worry about timing induced detonation.

I agree.

On a side note... I have:
3" TB GHL
Pann FMIC
Unichip - Map B
8-9psi

And, though I have not been ot a dyno yet, I think my CHP has GOT to be around that if not more on 93 octane.

Map A sucks for me so far.

[HorsepowerFreak]

I don't recall which map is which to be honest. I obviously had both things on the more aggressive settings though.

This was done on 92 octane fuel, that's all we have here at the pump.

[JDM Sam]

I run map b @ 10 psi now to even achieve the pull I did w/o a unichip. They were tuned on 91 octane crap I believe.

[HorsepowerFreak]

What was tuned on 91?

[CasopoliS]

Dunno, but if he is talking about the Unichip... I thought that was 92. I will have to look back on my notes.

[JDM Sam]

They told me the map was tuned on 91 octane b/c of the cali cars. They being one of the guys at Unichip forgot his name.

[Titanium-99]

I hope to be putting down some nice numbers once the Unichip goes onto my slut.

[HorsepowerFreak]

They told me the map was tuned on 91 octane b/c of the cali cars. They being one of the guys at Unichip forgot his name.

I'm not sure who said that... but I assure you it was 92 octane. We don't even have 91 in Portland.

[JDM Sam]

hmmm cali uses 91. so the timing has to be conservative for them to sell it and release it to all the us cars. anyways thats why I run map b for.

[JDM Sam]

Thats till I custom tune it after I get the friggin software and load up a 2nd harddrive to run old ass win 98 on b/c the stupid thing doesn't run on XP.
I hear they are releasing a new version though soon.
Edit: nevermind just a dealer map loader shit.

[Super Matty P]

on a similar note I just found a gas station about 35 miles from my house with 100octane from the pump.

[JDM Sam]

Installed another Unichip w/o cats and the Unichip EBC. No 15 psi spikes like everyone else is having. Did also replace a lot of the Vacuum lines.

[Titanium-99]

I cant wait this week I will be JDM SAM / Unichip tuned !

[505zoom]

...hypothetically speaking. You can make 1000bhp but only 30WHP...will it be fast? nope.

Engine dyno's are good for what you said...showing the gain of each mod. But how well that mod ACTUALLY makes your car work is what the chasis dyno will tell you.

hmmm... I don't understand your arguement. A chassis dyno is not going to show you ACTUAL numbers any more than a engine dyno will. When measuring the gain from a new part, unless you severely hinder the drivetrain for un-needed reasons, then the engine output will be along the same lines as the wheel output. You won't ever see a 1000bhp gain along with a 30whp gain because that just makes no sense. I know you were just using those numbers as an example, but even on a very small scale, you won't see any discrepencies like that unless there is something wrong with the drivetrain components on the after runs.

Take car A and car B... we'll call them 2 bone stock MSP's just for arguement. Car A dynos 170BHP, car B dynos 150whp. The 2 cars then each add a FMIC, intake, and DP back exhaust. Output goes up to 200BHP on car A, and output goes up to 175whp on car B. Yes the overall net gain is a little lower on car B, but I still don't see how car B is the more accurate way to tell how the mod ACTUALLY is working on the car... the cars will still be side by side in a race would they not?

on a similar note I just found a gas station about 35 miles from my house with 100octane from the pump.

Trick?

[HorsepowerFreak]

on a similar note I just found a gas station about 35 miles from my house with 100octane from the pump.

At how much money though?

You can get 76 100octane at most any peformance shop (not on the pump though) but who wants to spend $6 a gallon?

[505zoom]

Trick is a little under 5 bucks a gallon here... 101 octane.

[Super Matty P]

505, what I'm saying is more accurate about a chasis dyno is the ability of its reading to tell you how much USEABLE power you actually have in a race situation. Your comparison was correct but engine horsepower is not a TRUE test of how fast your car will be. Drivetrain loss, wheel sizing, and gearing play a HUGE part in actually increasing the speed of your vehicle. (vehicle weight is also a big deal). I was using my p5 as an example. It's rated at 130bhp but only dyno'd 98whp. That's a very big drivetrain loss. What it means in the real world is that when I try to run someone I'm not racing them with a 130bhp engine. I'm only going to be realistically using 98hp to try to outrun them.

The point of modding is to increase your speed. The way you increase your speed is to put more power to the wheels. The way you measure how much power you have at the wheels is with a chasis dyno.

if we just measure stuff based on bhp then my 4.5psi supercharger made something like 207bhp (iirc- based on the 23% drivetrain loss of my NA dyno)

[505zoom]

505, what I'm saying is more accurate about a chasis dyno is the ability of its reading to tell you how much USEABLE power you actually have in a race situation. Your comparison was correct but engine horsepower is not a TRUE test of how fast your car will be. Drivetrain loss, wheel sizing, and gearing play a HUGE part in actually increasing the speed of your vehicle. (vehicle weight is also a big deal). I was using my p5 as an example. It's rated at 130bhp but only dyno'd 98whp. That's a very big drivetrain loss. What it means in the real world is that when I try to run someone I'm not racing them with a 130bhp engine. I'm only going to be realistically using 98hp to try to outrun them.

The point of modding is to increase your speed. The way you increase your speed is to put more power to the wheels. The way you measure how much power you have at the wheels is with a chasis dyno.

if we just measure stuff based on bhp then my 4.5psi supercharger made something like 207bhp (iirc- based on the 23% drivetrain loss of my NA dyno)

Ok I pretty much see what you are saying about the true measure of what you are doing at the time, but I still say that if you want to think of it like that, it is just as good to measure bhp gains and then estimate the whp.

When you increase power output from modding a car, you increase the bhp, which in turn raises the whp. The 2 go hand in hand, so I don't see how using a engine dyno is "less acurate" than measuring power at the wheels. These cars are obviously all going to have a similar drivetrain loss, so even if it is correct when you say "I'm not racing them with a 130bhp engine, I'm only going to be realistically using 98whp", I think it is almost kind of redundant to think about that.

Say you and I both raise our bhp by 50... wouldn't we both gain about the same amount of power to the wheels as the other?

[Super Matty P]

dude, you're WAY overcomplicating things.

I never said an engine dyno wasn't accurate. I said it's not an accurate way of measuring how fast your car is. Thats what my 1000bhp 30whp comment was.

All I'm saying is that when you try to post numbers about how much power your car makes you're doing that to imply how fast it is. When you want to measure how much power is actually working to move the car you need to know how much power is getting to the ground.

Let's use two different vehicles....

Guy 1 has a 300bhp (200whp) honda

Guy 2 has a 750bhp (150whp) honda

which one is going to be faster? I know I'm using high numbers and big differences but I'm just trying to make a point.

All things being equal, the car with the most WHP will win the race. not bhp.

[505zoom]

Haha, leave it to me man, I can always make things more complicated than need be.:)

I was originally commenting on the quote below, and yea, I know what you mean overall, this detail just didn't sit right.

the reason I said "whp is all that matters" is because the point of modifying your car is to make it go faster. Putting more power TO THE WHEELS is how you make it go faster.

My point more simply is that if you put more power to the CRANK, you put more power to the WHEELS. It is a given, and no protege will see a 1000bhp/30whp gain while another sees a 1000bhp/900whp gain. The drivetrain loss will be similar if not exactly the same on all of these cars... so while I understand and agree that WHP is what you need to make your car faster, I just don't see any cases where gaining BHP will not raise your WHP, in turn making your car faster.

Good actually talking to you BTW.(outtie)

[CasopoliS]

yea when comparing our cars or similar cars I will take either number. WHP is a good number to have, but I can deal with crank as well. Like 505 said, drivetrain loss will be about the same.

On the same topic.... is 400 AWHP on an AWD system the same as 400WHP on a two-wheel drive? I am a n00b to AWD dynos. Does it just mean 100 HP/wheel (x4) vs. 200 HP/wheel (x2)? My guess is yes.
If that is the case, with the same HP, would an AWD car be "faster"? I know with AWD systems there is more powertrain loss... so lets just assume they both dyno at the same HP... one was an AWD dyno and one was standard. Thanks pros!