Cleaning Tools

[t3ase]

Alright, so I'm a hand waxing whore. I've seen what inexperience and a shitty rotary can do to paint so I'm nervous when it comes to buffers. However, I've been looking at Autopia which seems to unaniumously love the Porter Cable 7424.

The reason I'm looking in to it is that I've seen car after caron that site where deep, deep, DEEP coats are laid perfectly. I know that comes with experience and the right product but I'm tired of the Spicy Orange being "thin" looking with my waxing. I've tried polish, wax in liquid and solid form, more polish, etc.

So, does everyone here wax by hand or machine? What products polish and wax wise seem to be doin it now?

Here's my typical washing:
1) Using Mequiars "purple bottle" car shampoo, start washing top of car. Wash one panel or area at once using back and forth motion and rinse immediately. Move to next panel, working downward and clockwise, rising after all washing.

2) Dry with "The Absorber"

3) Check paint using cigarette box wrapper over fingers. Run fingers across various body parts to check for contaiminants. If needed, clay the car. Clay using regular bar and quick detailer as lubricant.

4) Mequiars "Step 1" "paint cleaner" laid on by hand in back and forth motion. Entire car is covered and then I go back and remove with microfiber.

5) Mequiars "Step 2" polish laid on by hand in back and forth motion. Entire car is covered and then I go back and remove with microfiber.

6) Mequiars "Step 3" wax polish laid on by hand in back and forth motion. Entire car is covered and then I go back and remove with microfiber.

7) Mequiars NXT wax laid on top of step 6 after it has dried and been removed. NXT is then allowed to cure.

8) Move on to trim, windows, etc. Will go in to that if I need to.

So, is that different than your process? What color Protege do you have? Have you had success with making light colors "deep"?

[t3ase]

Alright, so I'm a hand waxing whore. I've seen what inexperience and a shitty rotary can do to paint so I'm nervous when it comes to buffers. However, I've been looking at Autopia which seems to unaniumously love the Porter Cable 7424.

The reason I'm looking in to it is that I've seen car after caron that site where deep, deep, DEEP coats are laid perfectly. I know that comes with experience and the right product but I'm tired of the Spicy Orange being "thin" looking with my waxing. I've tried polish, wax in liquid and solid form, more polish, etc.

So, does everyone here wax by hand or machine? What products polish and wax wise seem to be doin it now?

Here's my typical washing:
1) Using Mequiars "purple bottle" car shampoo, start washing top of car. Wash one panel or area at once using back and forth motion and rinse immediately. Move to next panel, working downward and clockwise, rising after all washing.

2) Dry with "The Absorber"

3) Check paint using cigarette box wrapper over fingers. Run fingers across various body parts to check for contaiminants. If needed, clay the car. Clay using regular bar and quick detailer as lubricant.

4) Mequiars "Step 1" "paint cleaner" laid on by hand in back and forth motion. Entire car is covered and then I go back and remove with microfiber.

5) Mequiars "Step 2" polish laid on by hand in back and forth motion. Entire car is covered and then I go back and remove with microfiber.

6) Mequiars "Step 3" wax polish laid on by hand in back and forth motion. Entire car is covered and then I go back and remove with microfiber.

7) Mequiars NXT wax laid on top of step 6 after it has dried and been removed. NXT is then allowed to cure.

8) Move on to trim, windows, etc. Will go in to that if I need to.

So, is that different than your process? What color Protege do you have? Have you had success with making light colors "deep"?

[BRIAN MP5T]

The problem is that you were Crazy and bought a color other than white.

White is the F-Ing easiest thing I have ever dealt with, you can literally hose it off and pass a California Blade on it and you are ready for a night on the town. Scratches never show.

Now having said that, white also shows everything that isn't white.

Road shit, Sap etc... You will not see it as well on another color, but it's there. I have started last year to use Clay Bar as part of my 2 Week cleanup.
It's wonderful and the fastest way to do it. You will want to wash the car and then clay bar spots that need it. After that I get the Mothers "Cleaner Wax' It's pink, Rub it on by hand and then buff it off. Get a bag of terry cloths and a buffer. Preferably like 10" or so. Don't bother with the Fucking $50.00 attachment pads that you can get for it. Lay a New Terry cloth down and then place the bare foam pad down on top. Start buffing and periodically move the towel or flip it. Once done, you can switch to the Carnauba and hit it again. DO not use the Carnauba as a first wax. It will only seal any shit in. The Cleaner is fine by itself, but if you want to, the Carnauba is the BOMB.

Your Thoughts..

P.S. It is not required to dry the car before starting on the Hand Applied wax. It just makes it easier. Small Circles until it's dry and then buff off.

KEWL!

[BRIAN MP5T]

The problem is that you were Crazy and bought a color other than white.

White is the F-Ing easiest thing I have ever dealt with, you can literally hose it off and pass a California Blade on it and you are ready for a night on the town. Scratches never show.

Now having said that, white also shows everything that isn't white.

Road shit, Sap etc... You will not see it as well on another color, but it's there. I have started last year to use Clay Bar as part of my 2 Week cleanup.
It's wonderful and the fastest way to do it. You will want to wash the car and then clay bar spots that need it. After that I get the Mothers "Cleaner Wax' It's pink, Rub it on by hand and then buff it off. Get a bag of terry cloths and a buffer. Preferably like 10" or so. Don't bother with the Fucking $50.00 attachment pads that you can get for it. Lay a New Terry cloth down and then place the bare foam pad down on top. Start buffing and periodically move the towel or flip it. Once done, you can switch to the Carnauba and hit it again. DO not use the Carnauba as a first wax. It will only seal any shit in. The Cleaner is fine by itself, but if you want to, the Carnauba is the BOMB.

Your Thoughts..

P.S. It is not required to dry the car before starting on the Hand Applied wax. It just makes it easier. Small Circles until it's dry and then buff off.

KEWL!

[t3ase]

circles = swirl marks, in my experience.

It's not the cleaning or keeping it clean that bugs me, it's not being able to achieve a "deep" or "wet" look, no matter what I try.

[t3ase]

circles = swirl marks, in my experience.

It's not the cleaning or keeping it clean that bugs me, it's not being able to achieve a "deep" or "wet" look, no matter what I try.

[BRIAN MP5T]

Try the Method and Wax Combo I suggest... You will not be upset. If you are I'll Pay-Pal you the money and you can Box up the SHIT and send it to me. My Car will look hot...

[BRIAN MP5T]

Try the Method and Wax Combo I suggest... You will not be upset. If you are I'll Pay-Pal you the money and you can Box up the SHIT and send it to me. My Car will look hot...

[t3ase]

sounds like a bet.

[t3ase]

sounds like a bet.

[2Shiny]

circles = swirl marks, in my experience.


Swirls occur when something abrasive is rubbed on the paint. It doesn't matter whether you rub in circles or a straight line. If something is abrasive, it's going to scratch. And swirls are straight-line scratches. They only appear to be circular because they surround a point of reflected light. If you look close, and move slowly, you'll be able to see each scratch continue straight, until it gets too far from the light reflection, and will disappear.

The Absorber is a synthetic chamois. I HIGHLY recommend you look into a quality waffle-weave microfiber towel. My favorite is this one:
http://www.prestostore.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?ref=exceldetail&ct=29280&pd=133820
It's big enough to dry the whole car without wringing it out. BUT...that's assuming that your car is waxed, and much of the water will run down the paint and fall off upon rinsing.
I have two of them anyway, because I'm picky. I dry the whole car with one WW, and take the dry one and walk around looking for leftover streaks/beads.

What kind of microfiber towels are you using? Where did you get them from?

Meg's Step 1 and Step 2 are both non-abrasive products, so if you're hoping to remove swirls from your paint, I'm sorry, but you won't make any progress. Those products do contain fillers, so your swirls will be minimized (as in, hidden), but they will come back.

NXT is technically a sealant, not a wax, because it contains polymers rather than natural carnauba wax. It also contains light cleaners, so it will clean off some or all of the Step 3 wax. If you're going to top a sealant/wax with another product, it must be a pure wax/sealant. Otherwise the cleaning properties will prevent any real layering of the products.

The PC 7424 will be the best investment you'll ever make in terms of car care. Well...tied with MF towels and WW drying towels. :)
The cheap buffers you'll find in local stores are underpowered. If you want to truely remove swirls, you need to apply some pressure to the machine. If you have a cheap buffer, it will bog down with any pressure.

[2Shiny]

circles = swirl marks, in my experience.


Swirls occur when something abrasive is rubbed on the paint. It doesn't matter whether you rub in circles or a straight line. If something is abrasive, it's going to scratch. And swirls are straight-line scratches. They only appear to be circular because they surround a point of reflected light. If you look close, and move slowly, you'll be able to see each scratch continue straight, until it gets too far from the light reflection, and will disappear.

The Absorber is a synthetic chamois. I HIGHLY recommend you look into a quality waffle-weave microfiber towel. My favorite is this one:
http://www.prestostore.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?ref=exceldetail&ct=29280&pd=133820
It's big enough to dry the whole car without wringing it out. BUT...that's assuming that your car is waxed, and much of the water will run down the paint and fall off upon rinsing.
I have two of them anyway, because I'm picky. I dry the whole car with one WW, and take the dry one and walk around looking for leftover streaks/beads.

What kind of microfiber towels are you using? Where did you get them from?

Meg's Step 1 and Step 2 are both non-abrasive products, so if you're hoping to remove swirls from your paint, I'm sorry, but you won't make any progress. Those products do contain fillers, so your swirls will be minimized (as in, hidden), but they will come back.

NXT is technically a sealant, not a wax, because it contains polymers rather than natural carnauba wax. It also contains light cleaners, so it will clean off some or all of the Step 3 wax. If you're going to top a sealant/wax with another product, it must be a pure wax/sealant. Otherwise the cleaning properties will prevent any real layering of the products.

The PC 7424 will be the best investment you'll ever make in terms of car care. Well...tied with MF towels and WW drying towels. :)
The cheap buffers you'll find in local stores are underpowered. If you want to truely remove swirls, you need to apply some pressure to the machine. If you have a cheap buffer, it will bog down with any pressure.

[t3ase]

eh, thankfully my car doesn't have many swirl marks, as when it was running it was waxed weekly with nxt.

the only reason I waxed so often was because I knew nxt wasn't a "hard" wax compared to others and it did tend to wear away quicker.

I'm heavily leaning towards the PC purchase but I've heard horror stories of them destroying paint due to operator inexperience, which is my case.

[t3ase]

eh, thankfully my car doesn't have many swirl marks, as when it was running it was waxed weekly with nxt.

the only reason I waxed so often was because I knew nxt wasn't a "hard" wax compared to others and it did tend to wear away quicker.

I'm heavily leaning towards the PC purchase but I've heard horror stories of them destroying paint due to operator inexperience, which is my case.

[BRIAN MP5T]

Just don't let it ride in one spot and use only new towels.

[BRIAN MP5T]

Just don't let it ride in one spot and use only new towels.

[2Shiny]

I'm heavily leaning towards the PC purchase but I've heard horror stories of them destroying paint due to operator inexperience, which is my case.

LOL no no no...The PC is very user-friendly, and extremely hard to harm anything. A rotary polisher like the Makita 9227C is what can ruin paint with an inexperienced user. Those spin very fast, and concentrate heat in one spot. The PC is a dual-action polisher, meaning that it wobbles and spins at once. This movement spreads the heat out over a larger area, making it impossible to concentrate enough heat to burn any paint.

The one thing that you need to watch out for with any polisher, is polishing over plastic trim, particularly painted plastic trim. A heavy polish can cause a dull spot on the plastic where the paint was removed. But you don't need to worry about this happening on the vehicle paint, provided you use a little common sense. It really does take some effort to harm paint with a PC. You almost have to be deliberately trying to damage the paint.

[2Shiny]

I'm heavily leaning towards the PC purchase but I've heard horror stories of them destroying paint due to operator inexperience, which is my case.

LOL no no no...The PC is very user-friendly, and extremely hard to harm anything. A rotary polisher like the Makita 9227C is what can ruin paint with an inexperienced user. Those spin very fast, and concentrate heat in one spot. The PC is a dual-action polisher, meaning that it wobbles and spins at once. This movement spreads the heat out over a larger area, making it impossible to concentrate enough heat to burn any paint.

The one thing that you need to watch out for with any polisher, is polishing over plastic trim, particularly painted plastic trim. A heavy polish can cause a dull spot on the plastic where the paint was removed. But you don't need to worry about this happening on the vehicle paint, provided you use a little common sense. It really does take some effort to harm paint with a PC. You almost have to be deliberately trying to damage the paint.

[SandmicaMP3]

^ how far are you from the Il border? i may pay you to detail my car this summer lol

[SandmicaMP3]

^ how far are you from the Il border? i may pay you to detail my car this summer lol

[2Shiny]

And you asked about achieving depth on light colors. It takes a lot of patience and effort, but it is possible, though you will never achieve depth/reflections like dark colors can produce. IMO you just need to make sure that the paint is completely free of oxidation, and all swirls/scratches are gone. While it is true that swirls are very difficult to see on light colors, they will still reflect light before it gets to the pigment to show the true color.
A pigment is a compound that will reflect only a certain wavelength of light. If that wavelength is around 475 nanometers (nm), the color of the paint will appear blue. If the pigment reflects a wavelength of 590nm, it will appear orange. Pigments absorb all light except the color that they appear as.
So if the the light can't pass through the top layer (where all the swirls/oxidation are), the light will never get to the basecoat (color coat), where it can show it's true color.

Depth on light colors. IMO it's hardly possible working all by hand. It takes a LONG time to polish and clean the paint properly when working exclusively by hand.

Examples:
Before each picture was taken, the car was polished with a light polish applied by a PC7424, and cleaned with Klasse All-In-One, also applied via PC.

http://autopia.org/gallery/data/500/WheelSwap1.JPG

http://autopia.org/gallery/data/500/AIO_WGx2.JPG

http://autopia.org/gallery/data/500/Hood_AIO_WG_Nattys.JPG

[2Shiny]

And you asked about achieving depth on light colors. It takes a lot of patience and effort, but it is possible, though you will never achieve depth/reflections like dark colors can produce. IMO you just need to make sure that the paint is completely free of oxidation, and all swirls/scratches are gone. While it is true that swirls are very difficult to see on light colors, they will still reflect light before it gets to the pigment to show the true color.
A pigment is a compound that will reflect only a certain wavelength of light. If that wavelength is around 475 nanometers (nm), the color of the paint will appear blue. If the pigment reflects a wavelength of 590nm, it will appear orange. Pigments absorb all light except the color that they appear as.
So if the the light can't pass through the top layer (where all the swirls/oxidation are), the light will never get to the basecoat (color coat), where it can show it's true color.

Depth on light colors. IMO it's hardly possible working all by hand. It takes a LONG time to polish and clean the paint properly when working exclusively by hand.

Examples:
Before each picture was taken, the car was polished with a light polish applied by a PC7424, and cleaned with Klasse All-In-One, also applied via PC.

http://autopia.org/gallery/data/500/WheelSwap1.JPG

http://autopia.org/gallery/data/500/AIO_WGx2.JPG

http://autopia.org/gallery/data/500/Hood_AIO_WG_Nattys.JPG

[2Shiny]

^ how far are you from the Il border? i may pay you to detail my car this summer lol

Stevens Point is in the center of the state. I'd guess it'd be about 3 hours from the IL border (Waukegan). If you're interested, I'll make it worth your while to make the drive. :) IOW, I could never charge another member full price...come on! lol

[2Shiny]

^ how far are you from the Il border? i may pay you to detail my car this summer lol

Stevens Point is in the center of the state. I'd guess it'd be about 3 hours from the IL border (Waukegan). If you're interested, I'll make it worth your while to make the drive. :) IOW, I could never charge another member full price...come on! lol

[SandmicaMP3]

sweet! after i get it repainted in the summer maybe we'll have a detailing day i dunno if you know ryan(bpt323) but he lives basically inbetween us so maybe we could all meet at his place my brothers mx6 should be running by then as well so that'd be kool it could be a detail/meet lol
peace
dante

[SandmicaMP3]

sweet! after i get it repainted in the summer maybe we'll have a detailing day i dunno if you know ryan(bpt323) but he lives basically inbetween us so maybe we could all meet at his place my brothers mx6 should be running by then as well so that'd be kool it could be a detail/meet lol
peace
dante