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NewsBot
04-30-2008, 02:35 PM
http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/pix/dickinson.jpgAn appellate court on Monday ruled that key evidence used in Ohio speed traps was not admissible. With millions in local government revenue at stake, the Ohio Court of Appeals for the Ninth District found the accuracy of laser-based speed guns (lidar) to be unproven. The decision could inspire challenges to laser tickets throughout the state.

The present case began when Ohio State Trooper Dennis Matulin hid along the median of Interstate 71 with an LTI 20-20 laser speed gun waiting for the device to indicate that someone had exceeded the speed limit. Matulin charged that when Donald Miko's semi truck passed his location, the lidar gun displayed a reading of 67 MPH. The limit for trucks on the road is 55 and for cars 65.

At trial in the Medina County Municipal Court, Miko objected that the trooper's LTI 20-20 had never been proved reliable in an Ohio court of law. The prosecutor merely asserted the contrary. The magistrate quickly agreed, saying, "Yes, the court had done so by prior judgment entry." The court imposed a $100 fine and two points against Miko's commercial driving license. Appellate Judge Clair E. Dickinson scolded the lower court for violating the rule that a county court must publish, or report, a "judgment entry" used for the purpose of taking judicial notice.

"Nobody has brought a reported decision of the Medina Municipal Court considering the accuracy of the LTI 20-20 device to this court's attention," Judge Clair E. Dickinson wrote. "The trial court, therefore, was not authorized to take judicial notice of the scientific accuracy of the LTI 20-20 laser device by Rule 201(B)(1) of the Ohio Rules of Evidence."

Dickinson went on to point out that the unreported case which the Medina court cited to convict Miko did not include any required testimony from expert witnesses. As a result, the court overturned Miko's conviction.

"In the absence of a reference to a case in which the trial court determined, based on scientific testimony it heard in that case, that the LTI 20-20 laser device is scientifically accurate, the trial court was not authorized... to take judicial notice of its accuracy," the appeals court concluded. "Inasmuch as the trial court was not authorized to take judicial notice..., it erred by doing so."

The British media has been scathing in its treatment of the inaccuracy of the LTI 20-20 speed gun. The basic operation problem is that handheld laser speed guns must take two separate measurements of distance to generate a speed estimate. If, while taking a speed reading, an officer's hand twitches slightly, the laser beam can "slip" from one portion of a vehicle to another. The extra distance measured in the second reading is then added to the calculation that determines the speed readout. For example, if the speed gun's aim point slips from the windshield to the grill, the speed reading will read 8 MPH too high. London's Daily Mail newspaper (http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/07/713.asp), the BBC (http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/06/649.asp), and ITV network (http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/07/749.asp) have each run stories exposing fundamental flaws in the way lidar guns estimate speed.

A full copy of the ruling is available in a 35k PDF file at the source link below. Source

More... (http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/23/2348.asp)

SATimko
04-30-2008, 03:05 PM
Nice...That explains why I may have gotten not busted by some lidar cops here. If they pulled up from the front plate to the windshild...it said I was going slower...

SteveO
04-30-2008, 03:14 PM
The only benefit to LIDAR or RADAR is most (2-3 years ago) RADAR detectors couldn't detect it. Thats changing now.
I got to play with one a few months ago and found them much harder to use than our regular radar. Just as accurate, but in a crowded area its difficult to tell who is going the speed it shows unless you actively follow the vehicle with the device.

SATimko
04-30-2008, 03:19 PM
My detector detects it (obviously that's how I knew I was getting tagged) but isn't it true that if it detects that you're getting tagged, then you're already screwed?

fez
04-30-2008, 03:23 PM
and it's not hard to follow a vehicle with a Lidar... they are made for that crap. :/ Nice big lens and a red dot or cross... uhhhh those b*tches.

fez
04-30-2008, 03:24 PM
My detector detects it (obviously that's how I knew I was getting tagged) but isn't it true that if it detects that you're getting tagged, then you're already screwed?

yes, if your detector says LASER and there are no cars next to you - you are f*cked.

SteveO
04-30-2008, 03:29 PM
Yes, because LIDAR is not a constant 'On' setting like most stationary (read:in car) mounted radars. Your car gets targeted, the button gets pressed, bam...vehicle speed.
The only way it detects ahead of time is if you are around another car that gets tagged.

However, modern radar is very similar. It has a standby mode. Ours is controlled by a controller in the car. See a car that appears to be speeding, once it gets in radar range, press button to turn on, speed shown, and then back to standby.

This way radar detectors are useless until its to late.

Now, alot of guys ride around with their radar off standby, in the 'on' position. This is how your detectors 'detect'. And other officers will set up and check speed this way. Which most radar detectors give you a heads up before you get close.

SATimko
04-30-2008, 03:32 PM
That's what I figured. I generally don't speed alot. 5 over is my average. When I got my last ticket, I had my detector on, but the trooper traveling the other direction didn't until he saw me. At that point, it was too late. 57 in a 45.

SteveO
04-30-2008, 03:43 PM
and it's not hard to follow a vehicle with a Lidar... they are made for that crap. :/ Nice big lens and a red dot or cross... uhhhh those b*tches.

For a unit mounted system it is. The handhelds are easier to follow vehicles, but like I stated above, not on a crowded highway. You only have a small window in which to establish the vehicles speed as long as they are in the lane closes to you. At least thats my experience playing with it.

SteveO
04-30-2008, 03:46 PM
That's what I figured. I generally don't speed alot. 5 over is my average. When I got my last ticket, I had my detector on, but the trooper traveling the other direction didn't until he saw me. At that point, it was too late. 57 in a 45.

Yeah, its pretty easy to get a accurate, quick reading with radar now. This wasnt the case 10 years ago. Radar technology has come a very long way.

SATimko
04-30-2008, 03:51 PM
I guess I don't really use mine to help me when speeding, but to know when I'm being watched...if that makes any sense. I've been pulled over for some lame stuff before, as if the cop was looking for a reason to bust me. With the detector on, if they were to claim I was speeding, I'd have a better idea if their RADAR / LIDAR was on me.

SteveO
04-30-2008, 03:57 PM
I understand totally. I used to have one years ago. My fiance has one she uses in my Tribute.

Dont take it personally if you get pulled over for what may seem like small things. Usually there is a bigger purpose to stopping you. Now if you get stopped and get cited for something small (IE:cracked windshield, tag light, etc etc) then I can understand getting mad.

SATimko
04-30-2008, 04:04 PM
I understand totally. I used to have one years ago. My fiance has one she uses in my Tribute.

Dont take it personally if you get pulled over for what may seem like small things. Usually there is a bigger purpose to stopping you. Now if you get stopped and get cited for something small (IE:cracked windshield, tag light, etc etc) then I can understand getting mad.

It usually starts with something small, which sucks...but when they try to pin the seat belt (always wear one), the fact that my head unit has a big screen they have tried to say I was watching DVDs while driving, etc. That gets annoying. I understand they're doing their jobs, hell most of my family were cops...but things tend to get old.